[meteorite-list] New position on hunting BLM lands

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 20:36:26 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <833906.42966.qm_at_web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The Smithsonian doesn't own all meteorites found on BLM land. The Antiquities law doesn't cover meteorites. The only reason the Old Woman was taken by the Smithsonian is because it exceeded the annual weight limit of 250 pounds for any mineral. The finders should have kept it secret, hacked off 25 pound pieces each for 8 days in a year to reach their combined 500 pound limit and then returned in subsequent years.

The twisting of the old 1906 law to cover meteorites is grasping and would never stand up in federal court. Several politicians are avid rock hounds and would not stand for it. I am glad to live in Nevada instead of a state like Washington where I used to live who seem to have no problem violating personal rights by making such statements on their uniformed website. It seem un-American to me.
  

Best Regards,

Adam






----- Original Message ----
From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
To: David Norton <renov8hotels at earthlink.net>; Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 6:47:33 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New position on hunting BLM lands

> The previous / current (AZ BLM website) allowed for
> non commercial collecting of 25 lbs per day and a 250 LB annual maximum.

Well, the problem is that you have a statement like this: "National
parks and public lands generally prohibit removal of rocks from them"
-- and it's just not true. Well, people aren't allowed to rockhound
in national parks, I'll grant them that, but they have other pages
that state that rockhounding is clearly allowed on BLM land:

http://www.blm.gov/or/programs/minerals/rockhounding.php

So...the 25 lb per day/250 lb per year regulations are probably still
in effect, since that page refers to older regulations in its
references.

> This new posture very clearly states that "National Parks and Public lands
> generally prohibit removal of rocks from them" followed by "Report illegal
> collecting or vandalism".

Right, but take a look at what I said about those statements in my
last message. It's debatable as to whether or not the 1906
antiquities act *could* apply to meteorites, since every reference it
contains pertains to archaeological artifacts and sites.
If you read the text of it, that much is clear. And note that every
meteorite found on public land has been the property of the
Smithsonian, again, since...well, since at least 1976 (Old Woman).

If you're saying this policy is new, how did the Smithsonian manage to
claim the Old Woman meteorite? What different law were they evoking,
and if it was a different one (i.e. 'things have changed'), does it
really matter, because even if there has been some sort of a policy
change, if the end result is that the Smithsonian can claim finds...I
see no difference.

If, on the other hand, you're suggesting that their approach to
regulating the collecting of meteorites from public lands has changed
in that they are now stating that it is illegal, whereas before the
meteorites found simply belonged to the Smithsonian...and somehow
keeping and selling them for a commercial gain was considered
legal...well, again -- I'll consider this a problem when I hear about
someone getting arrested for collecting meteorites on public land.
It's one thing to say something on a website, and it's another matter
to make it active policy.

> National Parks have always been off limits, but
> not public lands in general. The website clearly characterizes all
> collecting on public lands as illegal.

Again, take a look at the page for which I just included a link.
Rock collecting in general is clearly allowed.

Jason

> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jason Utas
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 5:55 PM
> To: Meteorite-list
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New position on hunting BLM lands
>
> Hello David, All,
> I spent the weekend camping with some friends and somehow managed to
> get type-A strep. by the day we returned, so I'm just getting back
> into the swing of things. I have a few other emails to get back to,
> which I'll do in short order.
>
> This is nothing new, and has been the policy of the government/BLM
> with regards to meteorites for time indeterminate. It's why the
> Smithsonian was able to claim the Old Woman meteorite, but, to date,
> they haven't bothered to confiscate (m)any others, to my knowledge.
>
> The current wording of that BLM site is a little unsettling, though,
> because it states, "To report illegal collecting or vandalism call..."
> Even if meteorites found on BLM land belong to the Smithsonian, that
> shouldn't necessarily mean that collecting them is illegal. As has
> been noted in the past, the vast majority of meteorites found in the
> US are classified and named, and in most, if not all cases, it is no
> question as to who found or owns them. If the only thing keeping
> these meteorites from the Smithsonian is the fact that the Smithsonian
> isn't asking for the meteorites (assuming that people would hand them
> over if asked), it shouldn't be illegal to collect meteorites on
> public land.
>
> But there are a few problems with the BLM's interpretation of the 1906
> Antiquities Act.
> See here:
>
> http://www.nps.gov/history/local-law/anti1906.htm
>
> Are meteorites really "objects of antiquity?" In a literal sense, I
> can see what they mean - yes, they're old, but the act seems to be
> referring to antiques of a particularly man-made nature - namely
> artifacts and archaeological sites. In fact, the act refers
> exclusively to archaeological sites and artifacts throughout its
> entire body of text, so I'm really not sure where rocks and minerals
> fall under it. They don't seem to.
>
> As such, I believe that the justification of this law with regards to
> meteorites could well be successfully challenged in court -- but I
> doubt that it will come to that...but I suppose we'll find out when
> the BLM starts prosecuting people for finding new meteorites....if it
> ever happens.
>
> Of course, it should still be noted that any meteorites found on BLM
> land, if they don't fall under the 1906 Antiquities Act, would fall
> under the guidelines that the BLM has set for rocks and minerals, thus
> restricting the mass that can be collected in any given year to a set
> amount (250 lbs if I'm not mistaken) -- and prohibiting the commercial
> sale of any materials recovered.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 1:05 PM, James Balister <balisterjames at att.net>
> wrote:
>> I like this part! Leave no human remains! Or foot prints! Do they mean
> dead people?
>> Please remember not to leave any modern day artifacts or human remains of
> your own (haul out your trash from remote areas), take only photographs and
> leave only footprints on designated paths.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: David Norton <renov8hotels at earthlink.net>
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 7:40:08 AM
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] New position on hunting BLM lands
>>>
>>> Apparently the BLM is taking the stance that meteorites fall under
>>> the
>> federal antiquities act. A link to the BLM Oregon site. This is
>>> allegedly
>> going to be on every BLM site
>>> soon.
>> http://www.blm.gov/or/programs/minerals/noncollectables.php
>>
>>
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Received on Wed 05 May 2010 11:36:26 PM PDT