[meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics??

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 20:11:31 +0100
Message-ID: <00ad01cabfbc$549358e0$07b22959_at_name86d88d87e2>

I put any meteorite law in question.

Because, what shall they protect?

Unfound meteorites?

Nobody could so far explain me, why there is a NEED for a meteorite law at
all.
I'm so old-fashioned, that I think, a law has to have a meaning and a
purpose.

200 years everyone lived without any meteorite law and everyone was happy
and it worked perfectly.

Some countries made meteorite laws, and quite all of them, at least those,
where in former times many meteorites were found, are now unhappy.
Because less meteorites were found and less meteorites than ever ended there
as property of the state.

So why could anyone could have a wish to have a meteorite law?

I'm fed up with, that we all have always to explain, why such laws have very
bad effects.

I want to read or hear someone, who can explain, which are the positive
effects of such meteorite laws and who can tell us about the success of such
laws, wherever they already exist.

That would be interesting. So far I couldn't find any scientific
publication, where it is told, that the introducing of restrictive meteorite
laws yielded an improvement.

Best
Martin

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Dennis
Beatty
Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. M?rz 2010 19:47
An: cdtucson at cox.net
Cc: meteoritelist
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened
toethics??

Hello Carl,

You ask some interesting questions. Yes, it sounds as if there are
many gray areas in the law...and those need to be cleared up. As for
your question about the LA Mars rocks, from the first time that I
heard the story, I wondered about the circumstances. While I believe
the story to be true, some might say that it was a convenient
fabrication to preserve personal gain. In any case, I guess that one
must draw a line at some point...and due to recent meteorite hunting
publicity, it appears that the time has now arrived. It may be that
previously documented finds can be "grandfathered" but going forward,
all laws must be obeyed. It is one thing to fail to know or
understand the law and another to knowingly disregard it...which is
the position of those who state that they will "refind" specimens in
the future.

Thanks,

Dennis


On Mar 9, 2010, at 10:21 AM, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:

> Dennis,
> I agree with you 100 %. If there were laws prohibiting the
> collection. However there is not. If you do read all the posts it
> has already been linked to sites that do define collections of
> meteorites and they only limit the amount allowed to 250 pounds per
> year without a special permit. But with that permit more in allowed
> legally. It merely states that these collections cannot be for
> commercial gain. This is the gray area. If you sell them then you
> are in violation. But what if your kids inherit them? What is the
> status then? This verbiage is as bad as many other laws drafted by
> the feds. I was once charged with selling duck feathers. They ended
> up dropping the charges as I proved the stuffed duck was legal
> because it was an antique
> ( grand fathered) but under current law it is in fact illegal to
> sell any migrating bird feathers. Thanks to the migrating bird act.
> Yes, you can hunt ducks and eat them but you must discard the
> feathers and may never sell them. How stupid is that?
> Again , it is very gray because these rocks are not meteorites until
> they are approved by metsoc. true story. An IMCA member is not
> allowed to state that they are selling meteorites unless they are
> approved by metsoc. And rightly so because they are not real without
> the metsoc designation. Or are they???
> We can also reduce this to the ridiculous by saying that all rocks
> came from space. Yes even Earth came from space. Or do we
> grandfather it in like the duck feathers? So, they are technically
> just rocks until that happens. By then if you try to put them back
> they can get you for littering. Can you imagine what the cops would
> do to you if they caught you littering on public lands?
> The now famous Los Angeles meteorites were found by a rock hound.
> Again a perfectly legal find as a rock under 250 ponds.
> Years later it was discovered and recognized as a meteorite. But
> again until then it was just an interesting rock. So, based on your
> position all of the dealers of LA mars rocks are out of favor with
> you? For that matter any and all finds without a permit like Gold
> Basin on Federal land are all in this same position. All illegal.
> Looks like your buying days are very limited?
> Obviously my only point here is that these laws are really really
> stupid. My two cents.
> Carl
>
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Dennis Beatty <apollocollector at q.com> wrote:
>> I have sporadically read the comments regarding the implementation of
>> new (or newly enforced) BLM rules...and am saddened and disappointed
>> at the overall tone of the responses. What is it about us and our
>> love of meteorites that gives us the right for personal gain?? As I
>> understand it, any item found on public land belongs to the American
>> people not some lucky individual that happens to stumble across
>> something of value. I have read several posts where fellow
>> collectors
>> have stated that should they find a meteorite on public land, they
>> will merely "refind" it on private land. Sheesh!! I will be going
>> back through this thread much more carefully and if those types
>> comments are tied to any dealers, I will definitely not patronize
>> them. And were is the IMCA on this?? Isn't ethical dealing one of
>> their mainstays??
>>
>> Perhaps I am naive, but I had envisioned our group as seekers of
>> knowledge rather than modern day anti-government, do as I damn well
>> please rustlers.
>>
>> Well, there goes two cents...
>>
>> Dennis Beatty
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Received on Tue 09 Mar 2010 02:11:31 PM PST