[meteorite-list] NWA 869

From: Richard Montgomery <rickmont_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:12:01 -0700
Message-ID: <36F1E54102B94CF9B88FE5796CBB94A5_at_bosoheadPC>

When do we turn to the scientific community with our squabbles?

Always!

(Sikhotes are off the table, because we all recognize them..we're not
sending them in for validation...nor Milly's or Camel Dongas...nor "wrongs"
that end up being off the table because we also recognize them.

The new ataxite is perhaps off the table of debate-to-meteoritic origin with
eye-ball shreibersite and other inclusive exclusive evidence...yet...

When there is a skewed curve of understanding, from the neophyte's wonder to
the eventual and necessary eventual O-isotope analysis when a more
sophisticated analysis is warrented, and that we are all on a different
planes of understanding, defference to the science is crucial.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 869


Hi List,

I think this is a matter of people being way to "anal"ytical... ;) or
literal. Splitting hairs is one thing, shaving your head is quite
another. I agree with Martin's point, If you hunt the Gold Basin
strewnfield and find a meteorite you know it's "most likely" a Gold
Basin meteorite right? Uh... yeah. But...

I see the contention here, but this is more about logic and probability
here than classification. Not every single stone from a meteorite fall
need be classified for it to be a meteorite from that fall. Ash Creek,
Whetstone, & our beloved WI meteorite (classification done but not
released) are all meteorites that people have sold as being from their
respective meteorite falls.

If that makes these self pairings then so be it. Are you going to count
every other meteorite as self paired and start classifying every single
stone?

No... That would be silly...!

Regards,
Eric



On 6/23/2010 4:33 PM, Martin Altmann wrote:
> Folks, please stay realistic.
>
> That what Greg and Mike mentioned with NWA 869 applies too to any
> Glorieta,
> Sikhote-Alin, Juancheng, Pultusk, Gao-Guenie, Nuevo Mercurio, Allende,
> Camel
> Donga, Stannern and and and and..
>
> Or let's take better an all-American example.
>
> The Holbrook hunter goes in the Holbrook strewnfield, he hunts for
> Holbrooks
> for decades, he knows how they're looking like.
> He finds a stone. It looks, feels, smells, sounds, tastes like Holbrook
> (because it is a Holbrook).
>
> To fulfil the standard claimed in the 869er case,
> the finder would have to let make thin sections, microprobing, isotopes
> ect.
> by an expert scientist ect.
>
> to be allowed to call his Holbrook "Holbrook".
>
> Theoretically possible.
>
> Unfortunately Melanie would have then to pay for her little Holbrook-pea
> not
> anymore 50$ but 1000$, cause the verification is so costly.
>
> Makes not much sense.
>
> I rather trust in the experience of the Holbrook hunter.
>
> Best!
> Martin
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg
> Catterton
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Juni 2010 00:39
> An: Meteorite List; Melanie Matthews
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 869
>
> NWA 869 meteorites are very nice meteorites and there is nothing wrong
> with
> buying or selling them if you like them. That said, they are often sold as
> NWA 869 when many should be sold as "Likely paired with NWA 869" as the
> established Nomcom rules state, and has been repeated on here many times.
> This does not happen however and its sold as 869.
>
> There have been several times when people have raised attention to sales
> of
> paired martians and other meteorites that are not clearly identified as
> pairings, yet no mention is made for common and less costly samples like
> NWA
> 869 and they themselves sell it as such. Due to price (in my opinion) it
> is
> allowed to fly under the radar and nobody gets upset when NWA 869 paired
> material is sold as NWA 869 while the samples have not been tested to
> confirm it.
>
> This surely happens with many others, yet NWA 869 is the most common and
> is
> used as an example. There is tons of it, usually at less then .50 per
> gram.
> What should be done in a perfect world, several samples out of a batch of
> stones that are all likely 869 should be thin sectioned and tested. The
> results compared with 869 and then pairing claimed.
> The problem is, Who wants to do that for a .50 per gram meteorite? What
> lab
> will pair NWA 869 material? Its a tough bumpy road that has many issues
> that
> lead to the ultimate conclusion... most likely 75% or more of NWA 869 can
> not/should not be called NWA 869 as per NomCom rules for official
> meteorites.
>
> While I stated I would not buy or sell in 869 material, that is only my
> opinion and my choice as a collector/dealer and does not reflect or speak
> for anyone else but is simply my personal feelings about the double
> standards being put into place.
>
> I will say for the record to make sure everyone understands and does not
> think I am taking shots at the meteorite - Its nice material, I do have a
> sample in my collection and I see nothing wrong with those that sell, own,
> or collect it. Personally, I think its a fine meteorite, but I also do
> like
> others and tell people it is thought to be paired with NWA 869 when I show
> them my sample.
>
>
> Greg Catterton
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA member 4682
> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/23/10, Melanie Matthews<miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>> From: Melanie Matthews<miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 869
>> To: "Meteorite List"<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 6:09 PM
>> Hey listees.
>>
>> What is the problem with buying and selling NWA 869? or
>> have i misunderstood something?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -----------
>> Melanie
>> IMCA: 2975
>> eBay: metmel2775
>> Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>>
>> Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you
>> never know what you're gonna get!
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Received on Wed 23 Jun 2010 09:12:01 PM PDT