[meteorite-list] New Iron (Ataxite) SHRAPNEL

From: Steve Schoner <schoner_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:22:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20100623.132200.6316.1_at_webmail11.dca.untd.com>

No problem Doug, you are right. Most of the battlefields were withing 100 miles of shore. Bombers did do night runs and some got lost out over the desert.

You are right, no danger where this meteorite was recovered.

I did not read all the posts after when I made the initial post regarding this.

Just the appearance of the "fresh" crater and ataxite "shrapnel"... And knowing that WWII was fought in North Africa came to my mind.

I have seen the photos. Pretty nice meteorite find. No doubt.

Was there a meteorite, an achondrite, found in 1942 by a soldier during one of those North African Battles?

I can't remember which meteorite it was, or the battle.


Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470
www.petroslides.com

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Iron (Ataxite) SHRAPNEL
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:43:38 -0400

Hi Steve,

It is an incredible find and the analyses are in ... you mean to say
they are not yet published. I agree ideally publication first would be
very desirable but you above all should have experience with the the
difficulties and understand that once the cat is out of the bag, it
won't be put back in. These beautiful cats are like that. Study was
done on a slice early this year on when the interesting meteoritical
features were first observed by a leading classification scientist.

You would have liked to see a 6 kg specimen which is already in its new
home - beautiful meteoritical inclusions peeking out.

As for the comments on bombs and mines, all of that is quite far from
target. The WWII mining activity in Northern Africa was concentrated in
a strip 30 km wide along the Mediterranean. No activity was south of
Siwa (and very minimal there) according to the magical Internetwhich is
as far as 250 km south of the Mediterranean. Only places along the Red
Sea , Sinai and Suez were also mined. This locations is in the most
distant part of the country you can get from the Sea. Like worrying
about being careful walking around Madrid from the mining of Normandy.

I don't believe any bomber would make the 2500 km round trip to the
crater since that is further than the best vintage German bombers'
range under optimal conditions and fueling, at a time of severe fuel
rationing on a flight to nowhere.

Finally, the surface texture of the meteorite is not of an age anywhere
near Sikhote Alin (basically WWII age), it is older. I am no expert in
caliche formation, but there is a thin layer where in contact with the
ground. ...and it only rains about once every ten years there for the
last 7000 years. It looks to me of neolithic age but that is unfounded
conjecture.

Perhaps a good movie could be made about a DeLorean fitted with a flux
capacitor delivering ataxite forged heavy ordnance to warring cave
painters ... this was the humorous image that formed in my mind as I
read your comment. I hope you'll get to look at the material at some
point to get a better idea to base your next comments and I think you
will quickly have a change of heart. Some nice photos have been posted
already, including this one: http://www.diogenite.com/ataxite/255c.jpg

Kindest wishes and thanks
Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Schoner <schoner at mybluelight.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:12 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Iron (Ataxite) SHRAPNEL


That would be a great find as a new ataxite (low nickel) with an impact
crater.
But until the analysis is in I have my doubts as the shrapnel part has
me
wondering...

This area of the desert was most probably flown over by bombers back in
WWII.
Could that hole be the product of a bomb that was dropped? Bombers
often
unloaded hung up bombs in odd locations.

At any rate if I were searching any area close to a WWII battlefield it
would be
wise to keep that in mind, as any unexploded ammo or even mines might
still be
active.

Would not want any to be the last casualty of WWII.

Steve Schoner
www.petroslides.com
IMCA #4470

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:04:49 -0400
From: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Iron (Ataxite) SHRAPNEL
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <8CCE0441CEA650F-9DC-529B at webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed

Hi Svend, List,

"Zooming out the sat-image, one notes that the general wind direction
in the area
is north by northeast to south to southwest. Thus, any Aeolian
deflation or wind
shaped sedimentation pattern around the crater would have to be
oriented along
this axis. This appears not to be case. Instead we see a radial pattern
with the
crater as its center."

Svend has described poetry in motion; I am going to save his
description for reruns with a cup of coffee and savour the detailed
analysis, perhaps when life is at a kind moment and I am out in the
desert observing the night sky and inventing my own constellations for
family members.

The impact rays are probably already covered quite well, but if it is
not clear, let me try to add this:

We have a central source of material and under Richard's hypothesis,
wind blowing down points on the rim to form these "rays". We look at
the rays and the first thing we notice is that they are as quite well
defined. Svend's comments about the character of the prevailing wind
direction, pavement and bedrock aside, let's try the strategy of proof
by contradiction strictly under Richard's hypothesis:

Suppose this is a sandy or powdery place where the wind can blow out
spokes from the sand source(hole, crater, pit, whatever). Looking at
the rays from all directions we are forced to reason that the wind must
be blowing from all those directions or else we wouldn't have a hub and
spoke design around the crater.

But ... if the wind is blowing sand and powder spokes from all
directions, why would the spokes be linear, nearly as well formed
distally as near the crater? Because wind from all the directions of
the compass would cause a scattering proportional to the distance from
the crater, perhaps curves if it was a windstorm from another
direction, and not a sharp delineation towards the ends of the rays
like a bicycle wheel. The absence of this is a contradiction ... the
backbones of the rays are too straight and well defined to support
Richard's idea. A much simpler explanation is that someone painted them
on a something solid ground - who better than Mother nature responding
to the impact?

Kindest wishes Svend, and Richard, thanks
Doug




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Received on Wed 23 Jun 2010 03:22:00 PM PDT