[meteorite-list] Hammer Question

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 03:25:27 -0700
Message-ID: <AANLkTik7IALdcuu23j4XlhouZ23hnzI1BFjzAK4Lp-bZ_at_mail.gmail.com>

Jeff, All,

Hear, hear.

"Hammer" is just a name that collectors and dealers are applying to
meteorites that have hit - or in most cases haven't hit - man-made
objects.

As we seem to have figured out on-list, it's not a scientific term,
and can thus apply differently based on opinions.

So, I think the real issue here isn't whether or not a stone that hits
a road is or isn't a "hammer" as per some contrived definition - just
tell people that the stone you're selling hit whatever it did and let
them decide for themselves. It's the easiest and most truthful/honest
way to do things.

Jeff gets into how the term denotes a story...in this business, I've
come to examine every story critically, and have been cheated out of
thousands of dollars even so.

The conclusion I've drawn: people can lie - rocks don't.

Why is this important?

Short of people lying outright about stones having hit man-made
objects, dealers have a legitimate reason to start blurring the lines
of what constitutes a "hammer stone" if they are worth more simply
based on the fact that they are a "hammer stone" regardless of the
story of the individual meteorite.

We collect meteorites because they're from space, and that's a history
we can't erase without irrevocably altering the meteorites themselves.
 It's also generally what makes them interesting - or else we'd all be
collecting New Jersey objects and all of those mysterious pieces of
metal and stone that make headlines, but that seem to be from earth
(and not in an NWA 5400 sort of way). They all have great stories,
after all.

But, for the most part, we don't. So the fact that they're meteorites
is still apparently the most important thing about them.

If that's the case, the real problem is that we have quasi-deceptive
marketing schemes going on here. There are "hammer stones,"
"hammer-fall stones," etc. All of a sudden, dealers are calling every
Juancheng, every piece of Kunashak, and every Holbrook, Park Forest,
Ash Creek, and Wisconsin stone a "hammer fall stone." What's
important isn't the meteorite or it's history. So long as it's a
"hammer," it's worth more regardless of why the person selling it
deems it so.

It doesn't even matter if a given meteorite hit the ground, a car, or
an animal; so long as a fragment of the given meteorite hit something,
it gets the "hammer" designation.

Talk about meaningless terminology aimed at jacking up prices!

So, give it up! A hammer is a tool we use for knocking nails into
things, and for sometimes pulling them out.

A meteorite that hit a roof is a meteorite that hit a roof. And if it
hit a road, it's a meteorite that hit a road.

If you care about the story, don't start applying a generic term like
"hammer," because it devalues the story and makes it generic: a
collectible for the sake of it.

And if you don't care about such things...you're probably not posting
on this thread...so...keep ignoring it.

We people put far too much stock in ourselves anyways.

Regards,
Jason


On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au> wrote:
> They are interesting questions but I see it one simple way. A "hammer" is
> interesting why? Think about it! Hammer is just a marketing term... plain
> and simple. What's one thing that all "hammers" have in common?
>
> They hit something! Yes but wrong!
>
> The one thing that all "hammers" have in common is a story. That's what we
> as people and collectors are interested in. Something that sets it apart
> from the norm. So my way of seeing it is that if a particular stone has a
> story about then that is the important part.
>
> Matt's "cowpie" stone has every bit the same great story as a stone hitting
> a fence, a dirt road or whatever it might be.
>
> The rest is just semantics.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> To: <mlblood at cox.net>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hammer Question
>
>
> Michael and Listers,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to answer my question Listers. I have one more
> example. Now lets say I make a shed out of tree branches that I found from
> the woods and the meteorite hits the shed, which is made of only tree
> branches. Does it make it a hammer? If so that would have to hold true with
> the dirt road as well. Both things are used by man, both things are
> constructed by man as a tool, and both items were made of natural items,
> dirt and tree branches.
>
> Why I asked this question is because I was doing some research on Lost City
> meteorite fall and found this great research paper from 1971. It stated that
> the main mass was found on a dirt road. I got to thinking and asked myself,
> does that constitute a meteorite to be a hammer if it hits a dirt road.....
>
> I have also read on Michael Bloods website that there had been talks about
> the Lost City meteorite fall and that a chunk of the meteorite happened to
> hit someones house and landed on the roof. I am wondering how small that
> meteorite had to been not to go through the roof or how big it was; which
> makes the Lost City meteorite fall a hammer.
>
> There is one other thing that I had noticed about the history of Lost City.
> I have read in a few places that it took 10 years for the Prairie Network
> system to photograph the first meteorite fall in the USA. Is that 10 years
> the length of time it took to photograph the first fall or 10 years that the
> Prairie Network system operated for? Why I ask is because I read in a
> research paper that it only took 6 years to photograph the first meteorite
> fall with the Prairie Network system. Here is the link to the research
> paper, page 32:
>
> http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1971SAOSR.336.....M/0000032.000.html?high=4bb95d172c21075
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
>
>
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Hammer Question
> Michael Blood mlblood at cox.net
> Wed Jun 16 08:15:54 EDT 2010
>
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>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Shawn,
> This is a question of where one chooses to draw the line.
> I know some that consider paved road hitters to be hammers.
> I am not one of them. However, technically, it does meet the
> Criteria. In fact, technically, a dirt road would meet the
> Criteria - but not for me - but as I said, it is a personal thing.
> PS: Some people also put a great deal of value on "near misses"
> Where someone actually witnesses a stone striking near them.
> An interesting category that interests me only somewhat, but
> Really excites some others.
> Hope this "answers" the question.
> Best wishes, Michael
>
>
> On 6/15/10 11:52 PM, "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hello Listers,
>
>>
>
>> Now I have a good question about hammer meteorite falls. It is said that a
>
>> meteorite fall is a hammer fall if it hits something that is man made. Now
>> if
>
>> a meteorite lands on the surface of a serviced dirt road, a road made by
>> man
>
>> from dirt, rocks, oil to coat the road, or other processes to maintain the
>
>> dirt road, wouldn't that constitute as being a hammer fall?
>
>>
>
>> Shawn Alan
>
>> IMCA 1633
>
>> eBaystore
>
>>
>> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p43
>
>> 40
>
>>
>
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>
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Received on Thu 17 Jun 2010 06:25:27 AM PDT