[meteorite-list] question about olivine diogenites

From: Alan Rubin <aerubin_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:31:08 -0700
Message-ID: <3E30693B615646FD910AE7B920190D1B_at_igpp.ucla.edu>

You can rest assured that there are a number of incorrectly classified
meteorites. In the case of some chondrites, this is due to mistakes by the
original classifiers who may have had many meteorites to classify and
gathered only minimal amounts of data on individual specimens. Then, by
chance, if a researcher looks at one of the samples in more detail, the new
data may indicate that the sample was originally incorrectly classified.
ALH 84001 was originally classified as a diogenite because there were
insufficient data to indicate its martian origin. It took more work before
its true provenance was recognized.


Alan Rubin
Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
University of California
405 Hilgard Avenue
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567
phone: 310-825-3202
e-mail: aerubin at ucla.edu
website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html


----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Stanley" <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
To: <tbear1 at cableone.net>; "mike" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>;
<kieron.heard at ukonline.co.uk>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] question about olivine diogenites



List:

I find this interesting and it reminds me of something I've thought about
for a while.

How and for what reasons are meteorites re-classified and then changed?
I've seen this occur on a number of meteorites. Why does this happen, and
how does it start? Some examples have been mentioned in this post. Is it
requested by the finder? Does the finder send another sample to a second
institution? Or are specimens randomly re-analyzed? Look at ALH84001 - that
was originally a diogenite.

I've always wondered if there are any other meteorites that have the wrong
classification sitting in someones display cabinet.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:18:04 -0700
> From: tbear1 at cableone.net
> To: meteoritemike at gmail.com; kieron.heard at ukonline.co.uk
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] question about olivine diogenites
>
> Simply put, the NOM COM has no self-imposed authority to establish new
> classification nomenclature. Because there is not yet a peer-reviewed
> paper
> on the issue of olivine-rich diogenites being an "official" designation,
> this classification is not "officially" recognized. A paper is in
> progress,
> that involves Tony Irving, NAU, and others, that will hopefully resolve
> the
> matter.
>
> Consider how frustrating the classification mess is when we have attempted
> to classify stones that are>90 vol % olivine, which in terrestrial
> terminology is a dunite, only to have the "official classification" given
> as
> diogenite. Wrong! The definition of diogenite is "achondritic stony
> meteorite composed essentially of pyroxene minerals". Olivine is not a
> pyroxene.
> We (Prof. Irving and NAU) are addressing this and other classification
> problems.
>
> Have PATIENCE, providing that we live long enough, the problems may be
> resolved.
>
> Ted
>
> IMCA #1110
>
> On 6/11/10 10:27 AM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks"
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kieron and List,
>>
>> I'll take a stab at this one - although I could be wrong, here is my
>> theory -
>>
>> Perhaps "olivine diogenite" is not fully-accepted nomenclature by all
>> scientists and institutions, so maybe it depends on who does the
>> classification and who submits the write-up?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> On 6/11/10, Kieron Heard wrote:
>>> Thanks for your replies chaps but I am still mystified. I accept that
>>> NWA
>>> 1459 is another example of an olivine diogenite, but why then is its
>>> recommended classification in the MetBull Database simply 'diogenite'
>>> and
>>> not 'diogenite-olivine'?
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards, Kieron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Greg Hupe [mailto:gmhupe at htn.net]
>>> Sent: 11 June 2010 17:30
>>> To: Greg Stanley; kieron.heard at ukonline.co.uk;
>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] question about olivine diogenites
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Kieron, GregS and List,
>>>
>>> The first recognized Olivine Diogenite was NWA 1459, then came along NWA
>>> 1877(w/ pairing 5603, and others), then NWA 5480 (and pairings). I am
>>> not
>>> familiar with GRA 98108.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> ====================
>>> Greg Hupe
>>> The Hupe Collection
>>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>>> gmhupe at htn.net
>>> www.LunarRock.com
>>> IMCA 3163
>>> ====================
>>> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Greg Stanley"
>>> To: ;
>>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] question about olivine diogenites
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> List:
>>>>
>>>> Is not NWA 5480 an olivine diogenite too?
>>>>
>>>> Greg S.
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> From: kieron.heard at ukonline.co.uk
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:13:49 +0100
>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] question about olivine diogenites
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if anyone can offer some advice? I am pleased to have
>>>>> obtained a
>>>>> sample of NWA 6149 (prov) - an olivine diogenite. This prompted me to
>>>>> do
>>>>> some research on the MetBull Database, and I see that there are only
>>>>> three
>>>>> meteorites that are classified there as 'olivine diogenites' (MIL
>>>>> 07001,
>>>>> NWA
>>>>> 5603 and NWA 6157). Other stones that have in the past been described
>>>>> as
>>>>> olivine diogenites (such as GRA 98108 and NWA 1459) have recommended
>>>>> classifications of 'diogenite', despite seeming to have a significant
>>>>> olivine content.
>>>>>
>>>>> So my question is, What is the requirement for a meteorite to be
>>>>> recorded
>>>>> in
>>>>> the database as as 'olivine diogenite'?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance for any information.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, Kieron
>>>>>
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Received on Fri 11 Jun 2010 04:31:08 PM PDT