[meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King ofAngrites"for sale -...

From: Becky and Kirk <bandk_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:46:24 -0500
Message-ID: <E5C3FDE652194042ABA839CB77D488CB_at_owner55652f88b>

Vrrrrp----WRONG----Faith is something that one accepts as the TRUTH or
reality, but they can not PROVE it empirically.

Kirk......:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Starsinthedirt at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King
ofAngrites"for sale -...


> Faith is the action of making your self accept some thing you know not to
> be true. Other wise it is just learning.
>
> How did we get on this nonsense again?
>
> Tom
>
> In a message dated 7/23/2010 8:22:53 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> geeg48 at msn.com writes:
>
>
> Hi Eric,
>
> I don't want to get drawn into another long debate, but I'd like to make
> a
> couple of observations. You wrote:
>
> "Funny, I never realized there was "proof" of what faith believes."
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Well Eric, by definition, faith doesn't require proof, but often times
> matters of faith have quite a bit of evidence (a type of proof) to support
> them. I could give examples, but I would be wrong to bring them up on
> this
> List, and if I did I would be chastised by most of the members here.
>
> In your email, you not only accuse faith of not having any proofs, but
> you
> also say that it is only made up of, "conjecture and subjective
> interpretation of observation."
>
> Well Eric, to be honest, I find that much of today's science, and the
> science of the past, is also made up of much "conjecture and subjective
> interpretation of observation." It's not supposed to be like this, but
> much of
> science has a very religious feel to it. Science is supposed to examine
> data, evidence and facts, and then follow that data, evidence, facts
> wherever
> they may lead. Scientists are supposed to have completely open minds.
> They
> are not supposed to have *any agendas*. Unfortunately, all too many
> scientists do have agendas (presuppositions). They view the evidence
> through
> their own biased lenses. They view the evidence through their own type
> of
> "faith lense".
>
> Mark wrote the following to you, "science has a lot more 'faith' to it
> than most people realise!"
>
> I agree with him, and I think Mark Twain would also agree with him.
>
>
> With respect,
>
> Greg Lindh
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:00:40 -0700
>> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King
> ofAngrites" for sale -...
>>
>> Funny, I never realized there was "proof" of what faith believes. Only
>> conjecture and subjective interpretation of observation.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On 7/23/2010 12:52 AM, Mark Ford wrote:
>>> Good quote.
>>>
>>> I also like:
>>>
>>> "Science is almost the same as faith, but just sometimes, once in a
>>> while, the level of required proof is taken up a notch"
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of GREG
>>> LINDH
>>> Sent: 23 July 2010 04:31
>>> To: gmhupe at htn.net
>>> Cc: meteorite-list
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King
>>> ofAngrites" for sale -...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Greg,
>>>
>>> I've always loved science, but I do think that some in the scientific
>>> community tend to stretch things a bit thin sometimes. All kinds of
>>> theories about all kinds of things are thrown around with little to
>>> support them. This reminds me of a quote by Mark Twain. The quote
>>> follows:
>>>
>>> "There is something fascinating about science. One gets such
>>> wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of
>>> fact."
>>>
>>> Something to think about....
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg Lindh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: gmhupe at htn.net
>>>> To: DRose at emersonhosp.org
>>>> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:51:24 -0400
>>>> CC: jgrossman at usgs.gov; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of
>>>>
>>> Angrites" for sale -...
>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Isn't 'science' just that, "Science"... Ever evolving as ground truth
>>>> comes in? Without open minds and hard work by many dedicated
>>>> individuals, 'science' would not get very far, especially in the world
>>>>
>>>
>>>> of meteortitics! Much of the initial work and/or thoughts are educated
>>>>
>>>
>>>> suggestions which are meant to excite others in rational and sometimes
>>>>
>>>
>>>> heated discussions, no matter what scientific focus is being
>>>> discussed. I won't even bring up the evolution talks of the past...
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Greg Hupe
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:00 AM, "Rose, David MD"<DRose at emersonhosp.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Jeff completely. Same thing happens in Medicine. And
>>>>> even when the data is peer reviewed, that doesn't mean that it is
>>>>> rock solid truth. It's a process of continual evaluation and
>>>>> refinement.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-
>>>>> list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:40 AM
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of
>>>>> Angrites" for sale -...
>>>>>
>>>>> Yikes! Abstracts to meetings are not peer reviewed!
>>>>>
>>>>> jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/21/2010 10:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jason and List,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer
>>>>>> reviewed and
>>>>>> contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I
>>>>>> asked
>>>>>> scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that
>>>>>> she didn't read
>>>>>> the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the
>>>>>> type of
>>>>>> petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not
>>>>>> apply to the
>>>>>> texture NWA 2999 exhibits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There were several prestigious coauthors listed in the original
>>>>>> paper; Unique
>>>>>> Angrite NWA 2999: The Case For Samples From Mercury.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who am I to argue with the world's best? I will keep an open mind
>>>>>> and hope for
>>>>>> some ground truth that will hopefully settle it once and for all.
>>>>>> I think the
>>>>>> authors were making a point of having an open mind and that the
>>>>>> subject should
>>>>>> be debated possibly stimulated more scientific interest in
>>>>>> Angrites. It took a
>>>>>> long time to win over the scientific community that some of these
>>>>>> meteorites
>>>>>> were actually from Mars. It was debated to death and now nobody
>>>>>> argues about
>>>>>> the Shergottite parent body any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam
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Received on Fri 23 Jul 2010 11:46:24 PM PDT