[meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July

From: Greg Stanley <stanleygregr_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:02:07 -0700
Message-ID: <SNT117-W21F50A4138D50C194E7F1AD2CD0_at_phx.gbl>

In my book:

Every stone is worth what I paid for it, and all my finds are priceless.

I spent 5 days in WI and came up empty, but had a blast - even my feet where covered with blisters.? But I marched on; I loved every minute of hunting.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net
> To: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com; meteoritemike at gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:46:48 -0700
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; photophlow at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
>
> Greg C wrote: "When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for
> less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per
> gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too
> much..."
>
> What a hunter or dealer pays for a meteorite in the field is irrelevant. -It
> is a wholesale purchase- Don't forget the expenses incurred to be there in
> the first place. Personally, I had over $3k in expenses for a single week
> and didn't find a single stone. Still, I ended up paying another hunter the
> going retail price for a stone without hesitation. And what about the
> hunters that found stones for 'free' on the side of the road or didn't pay
> anything? Should they charge less than the ones that paid landowners? See,
> it really doesn't matter. It might sting a little, at the register, to think
> about what the movie theatre really paid for the popcorn, coke, and
> Raisinettes I was about to enjoy, but I am not going to think about it or
> let it ruin my movie. Enjoy the movies, my friend!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mike Bandli
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Catterton [mailto:star_wars_collector at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 1:05 PM
> To: Mike Bandli; Galactic Stone & Ironworks
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Shawn Alan
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
>
> The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get
> rich of others.
> Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I
> understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less.
>
> When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10
> per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then
> see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much...
>
> Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of
> it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and
> people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from
> the main mass.
>
> I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its
> taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material
> at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many
> mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why?
> They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do
> that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says
> it is, I ask again, why?
>
> There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means.
>
> Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site,
> but when is it too much?
>
>
> Greg Catterton
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA member 4682
> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
> wrote:
>
>> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
>> To: "Mike Bandli"
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Shawn Alan"
>
>> Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM
>> "In the end, I think this is all
>> being overanalyzed to death. There is no
>> magic formula for determining what the price is going to
>> do. Did the price
>> go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Pe?a, or
>> Daule, or
>> Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for
>> prices to fall on
>> those."
>>
>> Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the
>> meteorite market -
>> she is fickle mistress. ;)
>>
>> There some falls that will never come down in price, due to
>> scarcity
>> of available specimens. Cali is a good example I
>> think. Whetstone
>> will likely hold it's value well.
>>
>> Maybe a good discussion would be "ATW" - or available total
>> weight. A
>> fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the
>> material is
>> locked away from the private market, then the price will
>> reflect that.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli
>> wrote:
>>> MikeG wrote: "The TKW is vastly different, but TKW
>> should not be a factor in
>>> a fall being considered "historical.""
>>>
>>> I think you mean "historic," but I said nothing about
>> TKW meaning something
>>> was historic or that Buzzard was not significant.
>>>
>>> In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to
>> death. There is no
>>> magic formula for determining what the price is going
>> to do. Did the price
>>> go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Pe?a,
>> or Daule, or
>>> Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for
>> prices to fall on
>>> those.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Mike Bandli
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Bandli
>>> Historic Meteorites
>>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>>> IMCA #5765
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:23 AM
>>> To: Mike Bandli
>>> Cc: Shawn Alan; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and
>> alike for July
>>>
>>> Hi Mike and List,
>>>
>>> No, I did not mean that first buyers are all
>> inexperienced or
>>> impatient. Some are. Some are not.
>> We all have different reasons
>>> for acquiring certain meteorites and the "first on the
>> block"
>>> mentality appeals to many. If money was no
>> concern for me, I would
>>> all sizeable specimens of every fall I
>> mentioned. But I must be very
>>> careful with my funds - or my wife will kill me or the
>> pantry will go
>>> empty.
>>>
>>> Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered
>> Arizona fall in nearly 100 years.
>>>> Probably the most documented recovery in history.
>> Very little available to
>>>> collectors. Fireball captured on video.
>>>
>>> Buzzard Coulee - first ever recovered fall in
>> Saskatchewan. Fireball
>>> captured on video to great effect. The TKW is
>> vastly different, but
>>> TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered
>> "historical"
>>> (IMO) - if so, every tiny Antarctic fragment would
>> have historical
>>> significance despite not being witnessed. The
>> prices for Buzzard are
>>> much lower than Whetstone and the only difference is
>> TKW - not
>>> historical significance.
>>>
>>>> Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to
>> ever be recovered.
>>>> Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful
>> shock breccia. Under
>>> one
>>>> kilo available to collectors.
>>>
>>> Ok, I am schooled on this one. I did not recall
>> that the TKW was less
>>> than one kilo and I did not recall that it was
>> Ecuador's first. I
>>> think the price on Daule has remained high not because
>> of it's
>>> historical significance, but because the supply is
>> tied up in the
>>> hands of a very few dealers who have coordinated their
>> prices -
>>> essentially the price is fixed on Daule and the same
>> could be argued
>>> (true or not) for Whetstone.
>>>
>>>> Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history.
>> Witnessed by tens of
>>> thousands
>>>> of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight
>> and horrible search/find
>>>> ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain,
>> low-oxidized material
>>>> will always hold a premium, because the contrast
>> of the breccia is lost
>>> with
>>>> oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit
>> calculated.
>>>
>>> Like Ecuador, it is a beautiful breccia - but that is
>> an aesthetic
>>> concern. There are tons of gorgeous breccias on
>> the market. NWA 788
>>> is a gorgeous breccia but it sells for pennies
>> compared to Daule, Ash
>>> Creek, Peekskill or Wisconsin. Of course, I am
>> comparing a NWA find
>>> to a witnessed fall, but a pretty breccia is a pretty
>> breccia, and
>>> it's not rare. I am very eager to hear more
>> about Wisconsin,
>>> including the classification data and orbit if it is
>> calculated. It
>>> is odd that the TKW of Wisconsin will likely be much
>> lower than Ash
>>> Creek, yet already the Wisconsin prices are dropping
>> faster than Ash
>>> Creek did. Odd.
>>>
>>>> For those of us who don't view things through the
>> prisms of type or price,
>>>> all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and
>> significant events.
>>>
>>> I agree here. These are truly amazing events and
>> opportunities to
>>> educate people about science. But I would remiss
>> to ignore the
>>> economic factors behind the valuation criteria.
>> Whetstone Mountains
>>> is a great fall and I do not mean to denigrate it in
>> any way. But few
>>> would argue that the promotional strategy behind that
>> fall played a
>>> significant role in it's market pricing.
>> Schrader, Gheesling, Farmer
>>> and others did a great job in promoting the highlights
>> of this fall -
>>> without that marketing machine, it may have faded into
>> obscurity (and
>>> the bargain bin) much quicker. Some would argue
>> that it was not
>>> "marketing" or "promotion" per-se, but perceptions
>> cannot be ignored
>>> and there is a perception that these forces were at
>> work behind that
>>> fall.
>>>
>>> Best regards and happy huntings,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli
>> wrote:
>>>> Hello MikeG,
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you don't mean it, but your post implies
>> that those that don't wait
>>>> for some kind of price drop are inexperienced,
>> impatient, or na?ve. This
>>>> couldn't be further from the truth. Many of those
>> that purchase
>>> immediately
>>>> are just the opposite - experienced, long-time
>> collectors. It has nothing
>>> to
>>>> do with "being the first on the block to own it."
>> In the case of
>>> Wisconsin,
>>>> many wanted complete stones, which were few and
>> far between. Many wanted
>>>> pre-rain material. Whatever the reason, they are
>> all good reasons, and
>>>> everyone is happy.
>>>>
>>>> MikeG wrote: "Despite the marketing hype, there is
>> little special about
>>> any
>>>> of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches
>> to them."
>>>>
>>>> I won't attach any significance to them, but will
>> state the facts:
>>>>
>>>> Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona
>> fall in nearly 100
>>> years.
>>>> Probably the most documented recovery in history.
>> Very little available to
>>>> collectors. Fireball captured on video.
>>>>
>>>> Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to
>> ever be recovered.
>>>> Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful
>> shock breccia. Under
>>> one
>>>> kilo available to collectors.
>>>>
>>>> Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history.
>> Witnessed by tens of
>>> thousands
>>>> of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight
>> and horrible search/find
>>>> ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain,
>> low-oxidized material
>>>> will always hold a premium, because the contrast
>> of the breccia is lost
>>> with
>>>> oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit
>> calculated.
>>>>
>>>> For those of us who don't view things through the
>> prisms of type or price,
>>>> all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and
>> significant events.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mike Bandli
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>> Mike Bandli
>>>> Historic Meteorites
>>>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>>>> IMCA #5765
>>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
>> On Behalf Of Galactic
>>>> Stone & Ironworks
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:26 AM
>>>> To: Shawn Alan
>>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall
>> and alike for July
>>>>
>>>> Hi Shawn and List,
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are
>> witnessing (in part) a
>>>> dynamic of collecting meteorites.
>>>>
>>>> New collectors are steadily entering this
>> field/hobby and those who
>>>> stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge
>> of meteoritics,
>>>> collecting, and the market will increase with
>> their experience. What
>>>> we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we
>> are seeing now with
>>>> Wisconsin because the greater collector market is
>> maturing. Perhaps
>>>> now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies
>> and the majority of
>>>> current collectors are becoming more savvy in
>> their purchases. One of
>>>> the first lessons about falls that newbies learn
>> is patience. It's
>>>> the same with most things - the first person on
>> the block to have a
>>>> thing, pays much more for that thing. So the
>> rest of the people sit
>>>> back and wait for the price to come down - which
>> it usually does.
>>>> Those who wanted to be the first on the block to
>> own Wisconsin now
>>>> have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get
>> a better price.
>>>> The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top
>> dollar for a common
>>>> chondrite because it is exciting to them,
>> regardless of the petrologic
>>>> type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps
>> the "Class of Ash Creek"
>>>> has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits
>> of patience, rational
>>>> assessment, and experience.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, this could change in a moment when the
>> second season of
>>>> Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager
>> beginners discovers
>>>> meteorites. Or when the next brilliant
>> fireball goes viral on
>>>> YouTube.
>>>>
>>>> I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash
>> Creek, Whetstone
>>>> Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until
>> the right price comes
>>>> along. Those falls just don't fit into my
>> collecting scheme - because
>>>> they are ordinary chondrites that fell under
>> ordinary circumstances
>>>> (for the most part). Despite the marketing
>> hype, there is little
>>>> special about any of them beyond the significance
>> the buyer attaches
>>>> to them. Do any of the above have the
>> makings of a truly "historical"
>>>> fall - maybe, maybe not. Are they rare
>> types? No. I'm not trying to
>>>> downplay any of these falls, but I think few would
>> argue that these
>>>> falls were well worth the prices they were
>> introduced at.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> MikeG
>>>>
>>>> On 7/1/10, Shawn Alan
>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Listers,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have noticed with the Livingston WI
>> meteorite Fall in April that the
>>>>> prices were at a good high, well over $100 a
>> gram for the first month
>>>> being
>>>>> sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush
>> happened over night with a few
>>>>> sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and
>> it was mayhem. However, in
>>>> the
>>>>> past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping
>> low, and I mean low.
>>> Tonight
>>>>> on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78
>> and another slice at 9.66g
>>>>> sold at $285.
>>>>>
>>>>> With other recent falls they tend to stay high
>> for the first year from
>>>> what
>>>>> I have seen with sales and research, but with
>> the WI fall this isn't the
>>>>> case. I am left to wondering why is it with
>> this fall that it had a great
>>>>> led in sales in the first month and dropped so
>> low in less then 2 months,
>>>>> not to mention the lack of WI meteorites found
>> in the field? Is it that
>>>>> majority of the WI fall meteorites are being
>> sold at a recorded high
>>>> weight,
>>>>> dealers selling the big boys all at once?
>>>>>
>>>>> I see that this coming month that sales with
>> historic falls will keep
>>>> going
>>>>> up and the exchange of rare and special
>> meteorite falls will be revisited
>>>>> for the fact of the rich history they command
>> in the market and with
>>>>> collectors alike. Also not to mention, the new
>> NWAs that keep popping up
>>>>> will bring a new twist to the collecting
>> world. All I can say is history
>>>>> repeats its self and history can out weigh
>> anything through and through
>>>>> again while trends come and go. Hold on and
>> lets see what July brings for
>>>>> the hot summer month to cool our needs for
>> meteorites.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>> IMCA 1633
>>>>> eBaystore
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
>>>> 4340
>>>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>> Meteorites
>>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>> Meteorites
>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Thu 01 Jul 2010 06:02:07 PM PDT