[meteorite-list] meteorite-list] Pairing discussion/questions

From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:14:04 -0500
Message-ID: <8C1D3B0933044157B99743C0F791BC29_at_Gregor>

Hi Martin and List,

Very well said! Thank you for your input and what I believe most of us agree
is the proper set of rules one should follow as collectors, sellers, and
especially as upstanding IMCA Members!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite-list] Pairing discussion/questions


Hi Shawn,

at least for the lunars and Martians the pairing groups are well and
completely established and easily visible for everyone

for the lunaites on Randy Korotev's famous site:
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm

for the Martians on Tony Irving's soon similarly famous site
(what a pity that we discussed here on the list rather a silly Mars fake,
than his excellent suggestion for a new classification scheme for the
shergottites...):

http://www.imca.cc/mars/martian-meteorites.htm


and for both on Norbert Classen's site:
http://www.meteoris.de/


Hi Greg C. -

The Meteoritical Society is a scientific institution and has nothing to do
with private collecting or commercialism.

In general, so unsatisfying it sometimes can be, in meteoritics we're still
in the period of harvesting the big boom. In my opinion pairings if
necessary could be set together also later (when the desert will have been
closed).
That number salad is maintained for decades also with the Antarctic finds,
which keep their field numbers - there on average five numbers are paired
with eachother.

Nice side effect for science is, the more numbers a pairing group receives,
the more deposit samples will be obtained for free.
Problematic are cases, where the samples of the originally same meteorite
are classified at different places with different results.
Remember the El Haggouina discussion, where some still insist, that it is an
aubrite, while others revised it to an enstatite chondrite.
Or those inconsistencies like that one e.g. with the lunars, that a later
pairing to an established number group received a geographical name.

For you as an IMCA-member, there exist clear rules:

- Even if you're absolutely sure, that one of your stones is paired to one
or several existing NWA-numbers, you are not allowed in no case to use one
of these numbers.
Let's take your Martian as example: You would have been not allowed to call
it NWA 2975 or NWA 4766.

- If you have the opinion, one of your stones could be paired to existing
NWA-numbers, you're not allowed to state, that it IS paired to an existing
number, as long as a scientist gives you the o.k. that it is paired.
Until then you have to make it undoubtedly clear, that it could possibly
paired BASED on your own guess.
In your case, if you haven't had yet checked your Martian by a scientist,
you wouldn't have been allowed to declare it paired to the others.

- If you have acquired a bunch of unclassified stones, where you personally
are convinced, that they are the same - show them all to a scientist.
If you have many crumbs of your Martian, let have a scientist a look at all
of them, whether they really are all the same.

- Last issue: "Self-classification". No matter how experienced you are, no
matter how trustworthy your source might be. As long as a stone isn't
classified or in classification and the scientist hasn't given you the
proper classification yet - you are not allowed as IMCA-member to assign a
certain type to the stone, but you have to make it unmistakably clear, that
the possible type is your own guess, based solely on your own opinion.
Hence with your Martian, as long as you hadn't the NWA-number yet, nor any
confirmation that it is indeed a Martian by a scientist,
you could have called it only a "possible Martian" in my opinion.

Hope that helped,
Martin


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn
Alan
Gesendet: Montag, 18. Januar 2010 20:46
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] meteorite-list] Pairing discussion/questions

Greg and the list,

As a seller I would say its your obligation to disclose all information
about that meteorite as possible. However, I recently encountered that with
some meteorites being sold on eBay and the excuse of the individual was... I
have been busy and its hard to keep up with new finds... The funny thing is
is the new meteorite was also in their collection. So the real question is
what do you do and what I did is I did my research on the meteorite and
found that the rare meteorite was not that rare and there were
more meteorites in that group. So please people be truth and honest.

Shawn Alan
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Received on Mon 18 Jan 2010 04:14:04 PM PST