[meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....

From: Matthias Bärmann <majbaermann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:39:11 +0100
Message-ID: <CC71CDC220074F00B2ADA10018B9106B_at_thinkcentre>

Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,

highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us about your and
your colleagues scientific work and giving us so the feeling of being
privileged enough to sit in the very first row.

If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted focus of
investigation leads directly to a highly diverse pattern.

The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular complexity, which
provides hints on heteroatoms chronological assembly, suggests that the
extraterrestrial chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The high level of
extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less diverse terrestrial "chemical
space" - could that mean that development of life could depend on a kind of
reduction of diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would be
essentially linked to a process of picking up elements out of the
construction kit? But than it begins to play by combining them? Wouldn't
that point to the necessity to make a strong distinction between diversity
and complexity? Could that mean that the complexity of terrestrial
biological and biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
diversity?

Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural scientist ...

Best regards,

Matthias B.


----- Original Message -----
From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....



Darren, list,


The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the research we (a
group of scientists) are being conducting since several months on
Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its extraterrestrial
organic contents.

In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified the list of
that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and "organic
contant".

The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time (right in
time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just anounced
released out of press a couple of hours ago.

Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).

Abstract can be read here:

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763


More discussions are available through various media press comments
(easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
Schmitt-Kopplin").

May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules we had found
originated from the fact that the screening was not targeted.

Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands of
molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something that seems to
provoke debate in the media.
Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on meteorites in
general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in particular, that
origin-of-life researchers could investigate...

Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that Philippe
(Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian in 2008.

Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where all the
measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his discern and
faith in initiating that challenging research and for his expertise
that caused its success beyond any of our initial expectations.

So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more" other
meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming continuously;
thay will be published in the months to come.

My best wishes,

Zelimir


Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> a ??crit? :

> Darren and List
>
> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist have
> identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on the topic
> of Murchison meteorite, I came across an article on line that points out
> these interesting facts and finds on the Murchison as quoted from the
> article as follows....
> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system," says
> Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than the
> solar system."
> But just how old?
> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison meteorite,
> which is well-known for the
> organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains spent in
> interstellar space before winding up
> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a recent
> paper of the Astrophysical Journal,
> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a
> smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>
> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the majority
> of grains spent between 3
> and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our
> molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
> years ago."
>
>
> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>
> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of presolar SiC
> grains found in Murchison meteorite.
>
> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>
> Enjoy
> Shawn Alan
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison cynapse
> at charter.net
> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February
> 15, 2009
> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15,
> 2009
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>
> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>
> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds
>
> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>
> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit giving
> up its
> secrets.
>
> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because
> many
> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the
> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was
> recovered.
>
> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were
> formed from material that existed in the solar system's planet-forming
> disk of
> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto a 4
> billion
> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>
> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the
> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed.
> In
> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material older
> than our
> sun.
>
> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the complexity I
> was so
> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological
> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>
> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to understand them
> you
> are looking back in time."
>
> This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools to
> identify
> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided
> scientists
> with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based organics
> before,
> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the researchers
> weren't
> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis for
> all the
> chemicals it might contain.
>
> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial solar
> system
> probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth.
>
> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were
> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg; the
> meteorite
> probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed
> analysis will now be carried out.
>
> But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic
> chemicals that
> were floating around a primordial solar system will help us understand
> how life
> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous
> chondrite
> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system, collecting
> all the
> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean diverse
> organic
> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems?
>
> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other
> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when
> everywhere else
> seems to be lifeless?
>
> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star
> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The conditions for
> life
> may not be that rare after all.
>
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Received on Tue 16 Feb 2010 04:39:11 PM PST