[meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:25:18 -0800
Message-ID: <93aaac891002041725w6766de92j2d8bbc8054a81a45_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hey ironfromthesky,

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I said, Robert - there's a reason
I haven't been using that terminology and put that in quotes. By "the
redneck crap" I meant to refer to what people had been saying about
"rednecks" on the whole, because such sweeping, generalized statements
really don't add much to the discussion, and are liable to insult
people.
Of course, when people are looking to take offense at things that are
being said, it's a little hard to get around it, but, again, I was
addressing what was said.

And it's true, "rednecks" are generally seen in a negative light.
There are jokes about the stereotype, and it's generally not a good
thing to be considered a "redneck." Hence the offensive comments on
the list, though I was *not* one of the people who made them.

I stand by what I said, but not how you interpreted it.

> get some real world experience, perhaps then you can base
> your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
> graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
> somewhere that you have never met.

Right, because scientists are so unreliable, and studies that look at
the entire population of this country are certainly less correct than
my rationale regarding the matter. Surely what I perceive is more
correct than hundreds of studies and millions of dollars of
research....
Come on, man. Saying that you doubt the credibility of every
scientist you've never met is just...weird. I mean, great - be
critical and look into the data, but I did check the sources on the
link I posted and they weren't bad.

> You must live in a scary world.

A scary world? Well, a little, since you're the one with the gun,
but...I'm not scared enough to go out and buy one.
So...maybe you should ask yourself the same question.

Jason

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Robert Ward
<ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey meteoritekid, may I suggest that you "unplug" for a while, go
> outside, and get some real world experience, perhaps then you can base
> your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
> graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
> somewhere that you have never met. You said "the redneck crap" "is a
> culture that people tend to view negatively", glad to know how you
> feel about my culture and that you view people like me as second rate
> citizens, that is not very tolerant for such a leftist. You must live
> in a scary world.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Mike, Robert, All,
>>
>>> Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has made a
>>> huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent people
>>> that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
>>> target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just YOUR
>>> opinion, not fact as stated by you.
>>
>> And he's fully entitled to that opinion. ?And sometimes people who are
>> in positions of power and who have done good things make mistakes. ?It
>> happens. ?Happened.
>>
>>> I am not your "son" and please
>>> correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any state
>>> shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
>>> firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
>>> professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that says you
>>> know what you are talking about?
>>
>> It doesn't take firing a gun, making a gun, or being trained to use a
>> gun to know more about statistics and what they say about
>> gun ownership. ?That's like saying a pyro should be well-versed in
>> fire safety and know that starting fires is dangerous, and probably
>> shouldn't be done.
>>
>>> You say that it is ?incorrect to
>>> state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
>>> firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
>>> involved 100% percent of the time.
>>
>> And a gun is involved in 100% of firearm deaths. ?And there are a lot
>> of those.
>>
>>> toting around grandpa's squirrel
>>> gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
>>> it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.
>>
>> Sorry, I'm late for the lesbian tree-hugger benefit. ?Gotta get there
>> before the sun goes down.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Robert and List,
>>>>
>>>> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>>>>
>>>> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
>>>> Johnson's part to post that photo. ?Period. ?Regardless of one's views
>>>> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
>>>> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
>>>> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
>>>> but the effect was the same.
>>>>
>>>> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public list.
>>>>
>>>> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
>>>> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. ?There is
>>>> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
>>>> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know. ?So go
>>>> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
>>>> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
>>>> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>>>>
>>>> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
>>>> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
>>>> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY". ?Can you not
>>>> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
>>>> they were caught off-guard by it?
>>>>
>>>> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
>>>> was fine to share the photo with friends. ?It was poor judgement to
>>>> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>>>>
>>>> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
>>>> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>>
>>>> MikeG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>>>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>>>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>>>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>>>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>>>> ______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Mike Gilmer
>>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
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>>
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Received on Thu 04 Feb 2010 08:25:18 PM PST