[meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list

From: bill kies <parkforestmet_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:01:08 -0600
Message-ID: <SNT102-W530AEC30CA91B8E0679B19A2550_at_phx.gbl>

Jason,
 
Splendid examples of naivety and bombasity (yeah, I know it's not a word). I sincerely hope you never find yourself in a position that reminds you how foolish what you said here, is.
 
 


----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:44 -0800
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
>
> Robert, All,
>
>
>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>> when they leave the factory.
>
>
> Well, they're not toys and they're not meant to defend against
> anything - at least, anything other than someone else with a gun. And
> they're not used for anything else, really...though I suppose you
> could use one as a hammer if the situation called for it.
> So, killing tools. Yeah. You don't eat off them, you don't really do
> anything constructive with them....they kill.
> That's about it.
>
> Hell, by your logic, a hammer isn't a building tool. It's....well, if
> I look at what you write below, it's just a piece of metal and
> wood/plastic. And a car isn't a transportation vehicle -
> it's....metal, plastic, glass, and rubber.
>
> Kind of a crappy semantics argument.
>
>
>> They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>
>
> Piece of metal and plastic that, with the push of a button, can end
> someone's life. Granted, as you say, a machete would also suffice,
> but I don't think we had too many machete deaths here in the US last
> year, though there are a great many machetes. You're simply ignoring
> the fact that guns make it easier to kill someone, and that's a fact
> that's clearly reflected in crime statistics.
>
>
>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects.
>
>
> Right, but standing in front of someone, squeezing your finger, and
> shouting "bang!" is hardly going to get the job done. Of course,
> knives/machetes would also suffice, but, I'll say it again: it's
> easier to pull a trigger at someone from ten feet away than it is to
> slide a knife between their ribs while they try to fight you off.
> Of course, if you're just using the "inanimate object" line, we can
> throw all sorts of things into the mix - nuclear bombs, grenades,
> ballistic missiles, etc. All inanimate. You seem to be saying that
> the fact that they're inanimate means that people should be allowed to
> have them because they cause no innate harm. Following that logic,
> you should have no problem with everyone having their own backyard
> nuke. But for some reason that seems ridiculous...I don't understand
> it. Somehow a great many people have decided that owning devices
> whose sole purpose is to kill is actually an innocent endeavor -- to a
> point. When the objects' ability to kill more than ~10-20 people with
> the push of a button, we stop and say that it's too dangerous.
> Apparently guns aren't *quite* dangerous enough.
> It doesn't make any sense.
> And while the suggestion that everyone have their own nuke may seem
> preposterous on the surface, it has some merit - they, too, are
> inanimate objects whose sole purpose is to kill. For some reason we
> as a population have decided that there's some arbitrary limit to the
> amount of killing power we want to leave in the hands of the average
> citizen; assault rifles, yes, and maybe even the odd grenade, but
> beyond that...it's prohibited.
>>From an absolute standpoint, this makes no sense. If you're not going
> to need to shoot someone or something, you shouldn't have a gun. We
> give them to soldiers for a reason. And there's a reason we don't
> give the average soldier a nuke.
> But soldiers are trained, generally don't carry their guns in public
> (at least in the US), and are, for the most part, psychologically
> screened.
> Though the odd nut does get through.
> Of course, what you're really saying is that guns are merely innocent
> bystanders to crimes in which they're used.
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html
>
> So this is where I'll post a link - and I know it happens more often
> in schools than in army bases, but, it still illustrates a point.
> This one man, with the aid of a gun, was able to kill 12 people and
> injure 31 others. While he may have been able to do as much with a
> machete or a knife...I doubt it. At the very least, you can run away
> from a man with a knife. It's hard to outrun a bullet.
>
>
>> So Mr. G, I have
>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>> think I am a morbid person.
>
>
> Anything but - but I'd have to say that you value the thrill of owning
> a weapon more than you value the increased risk of your being murdered
> in this country because of them. And that's fine, but you're going to
> have to understand that some people here disagree with you.
>
>
>> You say we should not offend our European
>> friends with our rights and traditions?
>
>
> Well, using the word "right" here introduces a great deal of
> ambiguity. You could be referring to a legal or moral right, which
> are very different from each other. One suggests that we're all
> entitled to own guns, and the other suggests that American law
> dictates that we can own guns, regardless of whether it is "right" or
> "wrong." One is indisputable, and the other is highly questionable.
> Of course, justifying something by saying that it's a tradition isn't
> that good of an argument; slavery used to be a good-old American
> tradition, as were many other practices we now consider to be
> outdated, polygamy among them, depending on where you're from (some
> places in Arizona approve).
>
>
>> Growing up I spent my summers
>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>> delete.
>
>
> This is such a strange analogy that I really don't know what to make
> of it. You're comparing the fact that people here dislike guns
> because of the higher murder, crime, and suicide rates that go along
> with them, to the fact that you saw horrible things in Africa and put
> them out of mind.
> Well, living in America, where many people do tend to own guns, it's
> hard to "push delete" and make them all disappear. Namely because I
> live here. It's one thing to say that tragic things happen a place
> that's horribly governed with little law, and it's another to say that
> we have guns here, in my homeland, and people dislike it.
> Very different. Very, very different.
> Honestly, bad analogy.
>
>> I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>> murdered with machete's.
>
>
> Here's a good page:
>
> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
>
> For a country with more guns *and better infrastructure* than any
> other, we're not doing too well on the charts - unless you think the
> top spot's a good one to hold.
> You just compared the US to Rwanda.
> Again, bad analogy. I'd like to point out that if they'd had as many
> guns in Rwanda as we have here in the US, barring munition shortages,
> it's highly likely that more than 800,000 people would have died.
> Just pointing it out....
>
>
>> I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm.
>
>
> Just as fast...maybe, but...you're a fool if you're comparing stabbing
> someone to shooting them.
> I'll say it again --
> It's one thing to pull a trigger, and it's another to slit someone's
> throat. I've known a few people in my life who have pulled a trigger
> one someone else, and I know for a fact that none of them have ever
> gone after someone with a knife. It really does take a different sort
> of person.
>
>
>> Peter
>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too.
>
>
> Eh, it's a culture that people tend to view negatively, but every
> culture has its drawbacks. "Redneck" crap aside, I think that it's
> generally a stupid thing to own a gun, as supported by statistics
> which suggest that you're more than twice as likely to die from murder
> or suicide if you own one.
> Again, that's your choice to make, but...it also means that there are
> thousands of guns around me thanks to people like you, meaning that
> all of the people like you who made that same choice are upping the
> odds that I'll be held up by some fellow while walking back from the
> library late at night, which isn't that cool, in my opinion.
>
>
>> I trust
>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>> "morbid guns" in them.
>
>
> This is such a strange comment that I really don't have much to say
> about it...apparently I'm not allowed to see violent films because I
> believe that people generally aren't "right" in their decision to own
> guns, needlessly increasing the risk that they and others will die.
> Of course, if I want to turn that back on you I could simply ask you
> whether you've seen any apocalyptic films, because if you have, surely
> you're an advocate of the destruction of the world.......
> Ugh.
>
>
>> Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>> PETA people can have there turn.
>
>
> For someone advocating peoples' not posting their opinions and just
> pushing the delete button, you're doing a lot to push your own opinion
> on others.
>
> It's posts like these that piss me off more than anything else; trying
> to get the last word in while telling others to leave it alone.
>
> I'll end with this - I read it somewhere and it stuck with me.
>
> "Glasses don't see: people see."
>
> - A good argument for the abolishment of glasses, no?
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Robert Ward
> wrote:
>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
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Received on Thu 04 Feb 2010 02:01:08 AM PST