[meteorite-list] NWA meteorites, TO BE OR NOT TO BE?

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:57:51 -0400
Message-ID: <AANLkTiktWF7H40Q0RUnrrBv_cgqdEEwu9iyERdr_PCq2_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Shawn and List,

I am a proponent of NWA meteorites and private involvement in hunting
for meteorites, and by extension also for laypeople collecting
meteorites.

But, I don't think anyone would say that the current methodology for
removing these NWA meteorites is perfect. The current situation is
far from ideal for science for the standpoint of find coordinates and
mapping strewnfields. Frankly, it's a mess. Which is exactly why
NonCom instituted the NWA catalogue system. The NWA system is meant
to provide some kind of order to a very disorderly deluge of
meteorites. Once the meteorites are catalogued, the scientists can
study them until the proverbial cows come home, and slowly these NWA
meteorites become paired and a more cohert picture of their Earthly
lineage begins to emerge. But the same chaos that makes the NWA
system necessary is also a boon to science because this flood of
material has yielded an unprecedented bounty of planetaries,
achondrites, and rare types for institutions, universities and
museums. The majority of these institutions have never once sent a
team into the deserts of NWA to hunt for meteorites. Beyond the
mandated 20/20 type specimens, many scientists and museums have
benefited from the generous donations of material by private
individuals. So, no matter how pessimistic a person wants to be about
the NWA meteorite situation, there is no denying that it has been
beneficial to everyone involved.

Ideally, every nomad and hunter would carry a GPS and log the
coordinates of their finds for later submission to the Meteoritical
Society. But this is not a realistic expectation given scarcity of
electricity in the desert. As anyone who has spent extended periods
in the desert will tell you, heat is not good for batteries. Devices
that rely on batteries don't last as long in the desert and good luck
finding a place to plug it in to charge the battery. Until some
insane philanthropist donates 1000 solar-powered GPS units to the
nomads, we cannot reasonably expect them to provide accurate find
coordinates. (Perhaps some low-tech methods like the ancient mariners
used?)

As collectors, those of us who have enjoyed the bounty of Saharan gold
rush are doubly blessed because the timing of this bounty coincided
with the rise of the internet. When those two things converged,
collection cabinets around the world swelled - for everyone.

All of this would be a moot argument if there were teams of scientists
tripping over each other in the desert looking for meteorites and
private poachers were pilfering specimens from strewnfields the teams
were mapping. But the vast majority of NWA meteorites would still be
sitting in the desert if not for nomads bringing them out or private
hunters locating them. These meteorites would be covered over by the
marching dunes or completely terrestrialized over time. Sure, they
would still be preserved for future generations of scientists to
possibly find (or not find), but our current generation would never
know them, and any benefits gained from their study would not be
realized in our time.

I am glad for NWA meteorites and thankful to the Moroccans for their
efforts to bring these meteorites to the open market. What happens
from that point onward is up to the dealers and collectors who will be
their temporary caretakers - and it is up to us to treat the
meteorites with respect and honor the science by putting knowledge
before profit.

Best regards,

MikeG

------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------



On 8/31/10, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Martin and Listers,
>
> Wow I want what ever your taking and so does my fingers. Any whos thank you
> for sharing your thoughts Martin and telling me I can answer some of my
> questions myself.
>
> WOW I forgot that the List was a place to talk about meteorites and ask
> questions. My bad, I must be at the wrong Meteorite List.... I bet I got
> phished. Dang, I need a new virus protection program :)~
>
> Back to NWA meteorites, I find it interesting that there isn't much write
> ups about them. So from a person that has only been around..... mmmmmm lets
> say 8 months, I think it was a good time to say something about this topic
> and see what some of the old timers thought about NWA meteorites.
>
> And lastly I hope a meteorite doesn't care where it lands, but from a
> collectors stand point, we do care, and from a science stand point, they
> care as well, cause if they didn't then I wouldn't see why the need for
> strewn fields or coordinates of where the meteorites are recovered from.
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA1633
> eBaystore
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] NWA meteorites, TO BE OR NOT TO BE?
> Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> Tue Aug 31 10:48:18 EDT 2010
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA meteorites, TO BE OR NOT TO BE?
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>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Shawn,
>
> I think, you can answer some of your questions by yourself.
>
> Outstretch your arm. On your extended arm look on the tip of your little
> finger.
> The finger nail of your pinky is the Earth.
>
> Imagine, your room has no walls - or go in the garden.
>
> 250 yards away from your fingernail, that's where the meteorites come from.
>
>
> So it's possibly not so important, where exactly on your fingernail they
> will hit.
>
>
> ...and as strained you'll squint your eyes,
> it's impossible to match a Shawn, a Mike, an Aziz, a Martin, a Bevan... on
> your nail :-)
>
>
> Best!
> Martin
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn
> Alan
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 31. August 2010 03:25
> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] NWA meteorites, TO BE OR NOT TO BE?
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I was doing an Internet search today on meteorites and came across a write
> up about NWA meteorites. I would have to say it was a good write up
> considering there isn't much about the history of NWA's on the Internet. The
> write up covered topics from the NWA gold rush, to how this affected sales
> and peoples desert meteorite collections, and how NWA meteorites by some can
> be seen as inferior to other meteorites. All these points do bring up some
> interesting view points in the meteorite community. I wonder what peoples
> take is on NWA meteorites and how the classification works or doesn't work
> with some finds?
>
> Why I ask this is because some of the NWA meteorites on eBay are NWA xxx
> meteorites, meaning those meteorites haven't been classified and probably
> wont. Now to me for every NWA meteorite excluding the Lunar and Martian
> meteorites could be almost unique in its owe if there is only a select few
> people that get these stones classified, making the NWA meteorite market
> confusing and regulated by only classifying certain meteorites and
> disregarding others. And as for selling NWA meteorites how does one
> determine the price point when the TKW and location is unknown?
>
> Is it to be or not to be when collecting NWA meteorites..... this draw back
> could affect the classification and make it more confusing compared to finds
> in the US and Europe. If I went to the Muffin strewn field and found some
> meteorites, I wouldn't have to get them classified because of the
> documentation of a fall being there. But on the other hand, if I went to
> Africa and found some meteorites I would be SOL and the only way I could
> know what the meteorite was is if I got it classified, which I am not sure
> how much that costs, but I bet it can be a pretty penny depending what your
> getting done on it.
>
> Now could this be a problem in some peoples eyes why they think NWA's might
> be questionable because locations cant be accountable? And from a collectors
> stand point what features does one collect NWA's? From my take it seems like
> that some NWA meteorite are unique in its own way by rarity or uniqueness
> cause of lack there of, and because of the way NWA's are collected, cant
> this affecting price point and investment for ones collection?
>
> Here is an abstract from the write up about NWA's
>
>
> NWAs: Second Class Meteorites?
>
> By Norbert Classen, May 2003
>
> On the collector's market, the prices of most Northwest African meteorites
> are still dropping while witnessed falls and historic specimens are getting
> more expensive. Are NWA meteorites less valuable, or is it a subliminal form
> of chauvinism making some people treat them like second class meteorites?
>
> The NWA Dilemma
>
> In the late 1990s, an increasing number of meteorites from the hot deserts
> of northwest Africa hit the market, most of them having been recovered by
> so-called "nomads", i.e. by native people from Morocco and Western Sahara.
> After having acquired several meteorites at the local markets, the French
> fossil hunters, Bruno Fectay and Carine Bidaut, started to educate their
> local team not only to look for fossils, but also for meteorites - with
> great success.
>
> link
> http://www.meteorite.fr/en/news/feature.htm
>
> NWA, to be or not to be?
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
> 4340
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--

Received on Tue 31 Aug 2010 07:57:51 PM PDT