[meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

From: Jerry Flaherty <grf2_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:31:27 -0400
Message-ID: <B75E021DF7214233B034E75DF7DE7C2E_at_ASUS>

Interesting term "Singularity"
Philosophically "ONE" [arrow] MANY

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:20 AM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

> Yes---it would like the PRIME MOVER indeed. This singular force had to
> include ALL OF THE INFORMATION, in the beginning BEFORE the Big Bang, into
> the Big Bang, that the Universe would ever need to accomplish all of the
> wondrous things that occur in our Universe to this day.
>
> This has been called----"The big download" of information. Seems to me
> that something had to download or put all of this information into the
> singularity that became the Big Bang BEFORE it exploded into the known
> Universe. That seems pretty miraculous to me!
>
> Kirk......:-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
> To: <cdtucson at cox.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mark Ford"
> <mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>; "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
>
>>I have to agree. So too,
>> If the BB is the beginning WHO or if you prefer WHAT started IT?
>> Some would call that a PRIME MOVER. Maybe even, dare I venture, THE prime
>> mover.
>> Jerry Flaherty
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:08 PM
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mark Ford"
>> <mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>; "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>
>>> Eric, all,
>>> It seems to me a lot of people believe in the Big Bang theory. If you
>>> are among them then you must believe that everything on this planet did
>>> in fact come from space. Correct? I mean there was this huge explosion
>>> if you will, that when the dust settled formed our wonderful solar
>>> system. So if everything on Earth came from this Big Bang then why is
>>> there all of this debate about life? Do some of us think that everything
>>> came from space except the dirt? No, I think many believe that
>>> everything came from the Big Bang and everything means everything. Life
>>> fits neatly into the category of everything. Doesn't it?? Therefore life
>>> also came from the Big Bang. Seems logical to me!
>>> Taking it one step further. If life came to Earth Via the Big Bang then
>>> wouldn't some of this life stuff have been launched to other planets as
>>> well. Perhaps even launched to other solar systems? If so then we just
>>> need to find the planet that welcomes this life stuff. I think Mar's is
>>> too cold. The moon seems like it should be okay but it lacks atmosphere
>>> and maybe a few other things.
>>> So, based on the Big Bang spewing life across space , life must have
>>> landed somewhere else. Either that or it is still in route and will land
>>> eventually on some planet that likes it as much as we do.
>>> Or maybe God created life?
>>> Again, my 2 cents. Carl
>>> --
>>> Carl or Debbie Esparza
>>> IMCA 5829
>>> Meteoritemax
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We
>>>> are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in
>>>> billions
>>>> of trillions of other dots in this universe.
>>>>
>>>> "...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>>>> door..."
>>>>
>>>> ok... Not really.
>>>>
>>>> "...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have
>>>> to have come from outer space..."
>>>>
>>>> Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.
>>>>
>>>> "...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
>>>> Earth?..."
>>>>
>>>> There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does
>>>> not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in
>>>> every way.
>>>>
>>>> "...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
>>>> where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."
>>>>
>>>> Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that
>>>> life
>>>> that is present today on this planet could not have started on this
>>>> planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded
>>>> Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's
>>>> flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could
>>>> have
>>>> come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space
>>>> could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all
>>>> encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.
>>>>
>>>> I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding
>>>> of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere
>>>> simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did
>>>> "elsewhere" get the life to begin with?
>>>>
>>>> It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in
>>>> evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most
>>>> likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe
>>>> in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to
>>>> meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will
>>>> continue on...
>>>>
>>>> So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most
>>>> likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system
>>>> out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another
>>>> planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the
>>>> habitable
>>>> zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?
>>>>
>>>> Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out
>>>> there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that
>>>> there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large
>>>> asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed
>>>> into
>>>> that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting
>>>> billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris
>>>> would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside
>>>> the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness
>>>> of the vacuum and cold of space.
>>>>
>>>> Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most
>>>> likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less
>>>> than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one
>>>> that
>>>> allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris
>>>> would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other
>>>> planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would
>>>> be.
>>>> Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...
>>>>
>>>> Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home
>>>> to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other
>>>> words it takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is
>>>> 186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in
>>>> distance. Remember that number...
>>>>
>>>> The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape
>>>> the
>>>> system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and
>>>> found this page
>>>> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which
>>>> explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I
>>>> wanted to verify, I check around and found this too:
>>>> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed
>>>> of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A
>>>> BIG
>>>> difference!
>>>>
>>>> Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a
>>>> more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it
>>>> would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed
>>>>
>>>> OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not
>>>> something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the
>>>> atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's
>>>> orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up.
>>>> If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta
>>>> from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml
>>>>
>>>> Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>>> Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>>>
>>>> A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest
>>>> orbital
>>>> speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.
>>>>
>>>> 38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average
>>>>
>>>> If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light
>>>> traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star
>>>> system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.
>>>>
>>>> It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately
>>>> 2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian
>>>> year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919
>>>> years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)
>>>>
>>>> So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a
>>>> quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6
>>>> Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living
>>>> in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that
>>>> come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life
>>>> then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?
>>>>
>>>> I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against
>>>> this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a
>>>> life
>>>> bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar
>>>> system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within
>>>> the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that
>>>> space time range.
>>>>
>>>> There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really
>>>> believe that NONE of them support life but ours?
>>>>
>>>> If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else
>>>> please by all means tell me...
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric Wichman
>>>> www.meteoritesusa.com
>>>> www.meteoriteblog.com
>>>> www.spacifieds.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark Ford wrote:
>>>> > There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
>>>> > region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
>>>> > must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
>>>> > not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
>>>> > that every single life form we have ever found originated right here
>>>> > on
>>>> > earth.
>>>> >
>>>> > Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have
>>>> > to
>>>> > have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
>>>> > where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
>>>> > Earth?
>>>> > It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
>>>> > where
>>>> > the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?
>>>> >
>>>> > Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>>>> > door..
>>>> >
>>>> > Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
>>>> > interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
>>>> > highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under
>>>> > controlled
>>>> > test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there
>>>> > are
>>>> > many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still
>>>> > poorly
>>>> > understood.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Mark
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> > Becky
>>>> > and Kirk
>>>> > Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
>>>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>>> >
>>>> > Phil,
>>>> > How is this "junk" science????
>>>> > Kirk...........
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
>>>> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
>>>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and
>>>> >> bacteria
>>>> >> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk
>>>> >> science!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Phil Whitmer
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hi listees,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Some interesting reading...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>>>> >> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50
>>>> >> million
>>>> >> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>>>> >> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in
>>>> >> diameter.
>>>> >> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million
>>>> >> survived
>>>> >> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>>>> >>
>>>> > that
>>>> >
>>>> >> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>>>> >>
>>>> > planet
>>>> >
>>>> >> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>>>> >>
>>>> > rock
>>>> >
>>>> >> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>>>> >>
>>>> > years...."
>>>> >
>>>> >> Still don't believe?
>>>> >> ______________________________________________
>>>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>> >>
>>>> >
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Received on Fri 18 Sep 2009 10:31:27 AM PDT