[meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

From: Jerry Flaherty <grf2_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:05:26 -0400
Message-ID: <55125739C65E4686988EDBB06F95D97B_at_ASUS>

I have to agree. So too,
If the BB is the beginning WHO or if you prefer WHAT started IT?
Some would call that a PRIME MOVER. Maybe even, dare I venture, THE prime
mover.
Jerry Flaherty

--------------------------------------------------
From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:08 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mark Ford"
<mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>; "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

> Eric, all,
> It seems to me a lot of people believe in the Big Bang theory. If you are
> among them then you must believe that everything on this planet did in
> fact come from space. Correct? I mean there was this huge explosion if you
> will, that when the dust settled formed our wonderful solar system. So if
> everything on Earth came from this Big Bang then why is there all of this
> debate about life? Do some of us think that everything came from space
> except the dirt? No, I think many believe that everything came from the
> Big Bang and everything means everything. Life fits neatly into the
> category of everything. Doesn't it?? Therefore life also came from the Big
> Bang. Seems logical to me!
> Taking it one step further. If life came to Earth Via the Big Bang then
> wouldn't some of this life stuff have been launched to other planets as
> well. Perhaps even launched to other solar systems? If so then we just
> need to find the planet that welcomes this life stuff. I think Mar's is
> too cold. The moon seems like it should be okay but it lacks atmosphere
> and maybe a few other things.
> So, based on the Big Bang spewing life across space , life must have
> landed somewhere else. Either that or it is still in route and will land
> eventually on some planet that likes it as much as we do.
> Or maybe God created life?
> Again, my 2 cents. Carl
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> IMCA 5829
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We
>> are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in billions
>> of trillions of other dots in this universe.
>>
>> "...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>> door..."
>>
>> ok... Not really.
>>
>> "...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have
>> to have come from outer space..."
>>
>> Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.
>>
>> "...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
>> Earth?..."
>>
>> There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does
>> not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in
>> every way.
>>
>> "...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
>> where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."
>>
>> Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that life
>> that is present today on this planet could not have started on this
>> planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded
>> Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's
>> flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could have
>> come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space
>> could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all
>> encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.
>>
>> I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding
>> of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere
>> simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did
>> "elsewhere" get the life to begin with?
>>
>> It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in
>> evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most
>> likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe
>> in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to
>> meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will
>> continue on...
>>
>> So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most
>> likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system
>> out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another
>> planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the habitable
>> zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?
>>
>> Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out
>> there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that
>> there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large
>> asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed into
>> that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting
>> billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris
>> would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside
>> the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness
>> of the vacuum and cold of space.
>>
>> Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most
>> likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less
>> than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one that
>> allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris
>> would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other
>> planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would be.
>> Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...
>>
>> Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home
>> to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other
>> words it takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is
>> 186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in
>> distance. Remember that number...
>>
>> The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape the
>> system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and
>> found this page
>> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which
>> explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I
>> wanted to verify, I check around and found this too:
>> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed
>> of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A BIG
>> difference!
>>
>> Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a
>> more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it
>> would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed
>>
>> OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not
>> something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the
>> atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's
>> orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up.
>> If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta
>> from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml
>>
>> Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
>> Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>
>> A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest orbital
>> speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.
>>
>> 38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average
>>
>> If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light
>> traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star
>> system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.
>>
>> It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately
>> 2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian
>> year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919
>> years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)
>>
>> So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a
>> quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6
>> Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical
>> time.
>>
>> Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living
>> in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that
>> come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life
>> then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?
>>
>> I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against
>> this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a life
>> bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar
>> system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within
>> the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that
>> space time range.
>>
>> There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really
>> believe that NONE of them support life but ours?
>>
>> If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else
>> please by all means tell me...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> www.meteoritesusa.com
>> www.meteoriteblog.com
>> www.spacifieds.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Ford wrote:
>> > There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
>> > region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
>> > must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
>> > not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
>> > that every single life form we have ever found originated right here on
>> > earth.
>> >
>> > Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
>> > have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
>> > where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on Earth?
>> > It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, where
>> > the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?
>> >
>> > Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>> > door..
>> >
>> > Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
>> > interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
>> > highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
>> > test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there
>> > are
>> > many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still
>> > poorly
>> > understood.
>> >
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
>> > and Kirk
>> > Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>> >
>> > Phil,
>> > How is this "junk" science????
>> > Kirk...........
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
>> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria
>> >> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk
>> >> science!
>> >>
>> >> Phil Whitmer
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi listees,
>> >>
>> >> Some interesting reading...
>> >>
>> >> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>> >> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>> >> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>> >> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>> >> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>> >> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>> >>
>> > that
>> >
>> >> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>> >>
>> > planet
>> >
>> >> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>> >>
>> > rock
>> >
>> >> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>> >>
>> > years...."
>> >
>> >> Still don't believe?
>> >> ______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
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Received on Fri 18 Sep 2009 10:05:26 AM PDT