[meteorite-list] [Clarify] Meteorite Self-Pairing = No-No!

From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:03:39 -0500
Message-ID: <FCCC85083E9549C3A3B59F4CF65D64B7_at_Gregor>

Dear List Members,

To clarify and/or add to my previous post "Self-Pairing = No-No!":

Where I wrote,
"It seems once I do announce a new meteorite, "guaranteed pairings" start to
be offered by different Moroccan stone traders."

I am NOT referring to my new lunar, NWA 4932 which I just announced this
week. Nobody has self-paired to that one [yet]. If there were any more of
it, suspect stones would have surfaced before now.

This actually brings up another example, when NWA 482 first came out, it
seemed that ALL of the Moroccans had more of 482, all were proved wrong and
was just wishful thinking on the part of get-rich quick stone traders. There
are NO pairings to NWA 482!

This was also the case when NWA 5000 was announced a couple years ago. It
again seemed that all of the Moroccan stone traders had MORE of it. In fact,
at the Tucson Show a couple years ago, certain disruptive stone traders
claimed to have a 17-kilo pairing to it. They knew that that 17-kilo stone
was a EUCRITE because months before I paid to have a sample analyzed from
that stone! Again, they did not care and wanted to sucker an unsuspecting
victim in. I can say that the 17-kilo eucrite now resides in a prominent
public collection because of the efforts of an honest and generous Canadian
collector!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>;
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Self-Pairing = No-No!


> Hello Carl and List,
>
> Carl brought up some excellent questions. To answer as briefly as
> possible, but without a single word reply, I will try to explain a little
> bit of my dislikes with self pairing to Classified material.
>
> I have had many different meteorites classified over the years. I
> typically wait quite a bit of time to pass before I offer these publicly,
> two years in the case of my new Lunar, NWA 4932, which I just announced
> this week. I wait for a couple reasons:
> 1) To let the different investigating scientists glean as much possible
> information about the meteorite in order to offer an accurately classified
> meteorite.
> 2) Wait and see if any more material surfaces to try and get an accurate
> Total Known Weight (TKW).
>
> It seems once I do announce a new meteorite, "guaranteed pairings" start
> to be offered by different Moroccan stone traders. On occasion this may be
> accurate, but MOST of the time it is not the case! You can not say just
> from photos if something is "paired". A recent example is when I announced
> a new diogenite, my Moroccan partner later sent me "guaranteed pairings"
> to this. After receiving four stones, it was clear that three of the four
> were NOT paired, and were something else. To make sure of this, I cut all
> four stones and then sent them to the lab to be examined, at MY cost! One
> turned out to be paired, the other three were not, they were; one
> terrestrial rock and the other two were rotten chondrites. This just goes
> to show that visual pairings are to be avoided.
>
> It is becoming more of a problem at the different Shows. Examples are:
> 1) NWA 2995, a classified lunar. Many "self pairings" hit the scene, some
> were actually paired after scientific examination, but even more were not
> lunar! In fact, I purchased one of these that "Looked" like 2995. After
> cutting it and sending the type sample in for classification to get my own
> NWA number as a pairing to 2995, I was informed that it was NOT a lunar,
> but a Maskelynite-rich Eucrite, cool in itself, but NOT lunar. More of
> these stones became available by the Moroccans and "Guaranteed" as Lunar
> of 2995. I was sent samples of several of these that turned out NOT to be
> lunar and I then informed these different Moroccans. I learned later that
> they sold these as TRUE LUNAR stones and sadly I found out that several
> friends got screwed by these Moroccans who were informed that those
> particular stones were NOT lunar. They simply did not care and went to an
> unsuspecting victim. This is one of the things that upsets me the most.
> 2) The Moroccans who offer classified material at the shows, stating,
> "These stones are paired to NWAxxxx". I have heard of many examples of
> this practice, and in many cases collectors are holding unclassified
> material which may, or may not even be meteorites!
> 3) Even if material offered is indeed the same as what they claim, the
> material still needs to be verified and the weight entered to keep the
> Official Total Known Weight (TKW) accurate. This is another pet peeve of
> mine. I often wonder why I should give up "another" 20 grams (or 20%) of a
> planetary meteorite when the original type sample should be plenty. Oh
> yah, I like to make sure what I offer is AUTHENTIC and to keep the TKW
> accurate as possible!
>
> These are a few of the issues that set me off. I am very passionate about
> what I do and try to keep it as accurate as possible. When games and fraud
> is perpetrated by those who do not care about the science or collectors, I
> get upset and tend to be vocal.
>
> If I seem too quick to reply, or type a single word in haste or anger, I
> apologize to all who are offended by my posts. I think it is important to
> keep it real, and really keep it honest and accurate!
>
> I believe it is part of my responsibility to keep it real and to give
> notice to those who do not!
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments from Canada
> toMorocco?
>
>
>>
>> Hi Greg, Aziz, All,
>>
>>
>> I would like to thank Aziz and others on their informative input on
>> buying meteorites from Morocco.
>>
>> I'm confused about this pairing of meteorites and I think Greg touched on
>> this briefly. This has been bugging me since I started collecting. I
>> don't want to start a flame war so please, PLEASE think twice before
>> hitting the send key on this reply.
>>
>> Take for example a dealer/collector buys a 300g stone from Morocco, gets
>> it classified and it is named NWA 9999, a very, very rare Diogenite.
>> Later, more stones are found and it sure looks like NWA 9999. I
>> understand the original 300g stone is NWA 9999 but the others found later
>> should be considered paired unless it has the lab work and documents to
>> back it up.
>>
>> Using this logic, all subsequent finds of Holbrook, Franconia, Gold
>> Basin,...etc. should be considered pairings and not in fact Holbrook,
>> Franconia, Gold Basin? Is this because these meteorites have established
>> strewn fields, respectively, but the NWA meteorites do not? How can
>> anyone be sure a stray meteorite has not fallen and was collected in
>> these U.S. strewn fields without cutting it or lab work done on each?
>> Perhaps an experienced meteorite hunter would know the difference but
>> what of a novice like myself?
>>
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> Greg wrote:
>>>"...Treat the meteorites right; as in, accuracy of type, TKW,
>>>self-pairings
>> (fraud), etc., and you will not have problems!!!"...
>>
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>
>
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Received on Thu 12 Nov 2009 06:03:39 PM PST