[meteorite-list] Ash Creek Prices.

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:04:55 -0800
Message-ID: <93aaac890911041404p72bb4cbekfac472866780a894_at_mail.gmail.com>

Michael,
Frankly, I'm insulted by your crassness and apparent lack of knowledge
about practically everything I wrote - or at least, your negligence in
addressing it in your email paired with the other things you said
seems to say as much.
You sent and addressed that message to me, and yet it really does not
address any of my points; yes, collectors went there, and yes, many
came away with little or no material.
The average weight of the stones found, as tabulated, was 39.8 grams;
as such, I believe your estimate of 90% of the stones found weighing
less than 10g is quite simply false. True, fewer larger stones were
found, but many were found in the 20-30 gram range; in fact, stones
between 10-20g compose the majority of the stones found.
That said, well - I'll go through your email thoroughly.

> Greg's whining is out of control.

Uncalled for. He really didn't say a word about you - his ideas may
not have been right, but if you start talking to people like that,
you're not going to have very many friends.

> Ash Creek was perhaps overpriced at $100 per gram for stones larger than a
> gram or two. However, you are acting like every person there came home with
> pockets full.

It's an ordinary chondrite - a pretty fall, admittedly, but why would
you say it should have cost five times the going price of Park Forest?
 Again, you're not addressing the entire gist of the thread. I never
once "complained" about the high prices. It was a thread composed by
people hypothesizing why in fact the prices were so high. Since they
are. And you can't really argue with that.

> Give me a break, most people were lucky to go home with 3 or 4 small stones,
> 90% under 10 grams.

According to the list of finds tabulated and posted to the list, no,
that is not true. Many people did go home with that many stones, but
more than half of the hunters at least one find above 60 grams. See
the March 24th post to the list regarding a tabulation of West finds
to that date. At any rate, more than 2/3 of the people who
participated had found more than fifty grams of material overall, but
the fact that more than half had a stone above sixty grams pretty much
flies in the face of what you just said.

> I am sure you are both smart, so do this, check on airplane tickets, o say
> from California to Dallas Texas. Short notice tickets were expensive, I am
> sure no one paid less than $300 to $400.00

Yeah, I think we paid $700 each, roundtrip - booked the night before.

> I myself, on three trip there, spent more than $1500 on tickets

Pretty much what we paid.

> Car rentals for me for one month, more than $1200.00.

Well, we were only there for a week - our cost was a few hundred
dollars, so you beat us there.

> Hotel, more than $2000.00

Well, if you lived there for a month, I guess that would run up - so
you're beating our cost by about $3,000, with a total cost of $4,700.

> Food I dont count since I eat anywhere.

So no additional cost there on top of living expenses.

> Not to mention that little thing called my time, more than 20 days of
> hunting, time when I could make no other sales.

I don't know what that would add up to, but - pretty much irrelevant -
see below.

> THOUSANDS on expenses, I found all of 20 stones. I walked more than 200
> miles (320 km) to find those stone. I want to keep almost all, so there was
> about 5 stones I was willing to sell.

Right - we estimate that we walked 15-20 miles per day every day for
I think five or six days - I can't recall the first and last dates
clearly now. At least ~100 miles, at any rate - no different than if
we'd spent a week in the local Mojave.
I don't know what your base expenses were - I suppose $50/day on
Enders' farm and $1/g on finds - plus whatever else you paid people.

> WOW, I guess I should have put $5.00 gram on those stones an made about
> $200.00

See, this is where I get confused. Whenever anyone questions the
price of West, I always see this kind of a response.
Even if you spent all thirty days on Ender's farm, it would amount to
a mere $1,500 in cost to you - trivial in comparison to the amount of
material you walked away with given the price per gram that you're
suggesting. Again, see below.

> ?hmmm, that would not even be worth my time to package them based on
> expenses.

Well, yeah. $200.00...but I'm not one to pull numbers out of my ass.
See below.

> Now, take most people who went home with say 5 or 6 stones, perhaps $1200.00
> in expenses, and most stones 2 or 3 grams were the norm.

Either they didn't participate in the list survey or your numbers are
simply wrong.

> Again, not even
> making expenses back and we worked our asses off to find those little
> stones. So people set the price in the $100 gram range, and buyers paid it.

Most of the people you're talking about would have been collectors,
not dealers. Looking at that list from March 24th, most dealers
netted at least a few hundred grams.

> Prices have dropped now because collectors have all the Ash Creek they want
> apparently. I was in?Munich last week though, and I had no ash creek for
> sale and was asked?by several people for it.

If people are asking for it, then there is demand. This bit doesn't
make sense.

> Greg?stop your crying, it is really getting old, and I am not sure if you
> have noticed, but a large number of people have dropped off the list, it has
> become a pitiful place full of whining and crying and little else.

Again, a good way to make someone hate you, especially when they
haven't spoken a word against you.

> Get over yourself.

I assume this is directed at me, since the previous comment was
directed at Greg, and the email is addressed to both him and myself.

All I can say is - you're one to talk.

> You want to find the Benson fall, get off your ass, as we said months ago,
> get out here and look for it. What do you want, for me to? drive you to the
> strewnfield and hold your hand while you search? Should I give you my single
> piece I found because you want it?

Perhaps you're talking to Greg?
I haven't spoken a word about Benson, and was too busy to go there at
the time. I'm a full-time student, Michael. Double-majoring and all.
 Kind of busy. Trust me, I wanted to go - you of all people should
know that. But I have a life that doesn't let me drop everything at a
moment's notice to do what I love. I didn't complain.
Why are you sending this to me.

> You are no being resonable or logical. When the coordinates are published,
> you are welcome to hunt all you want.

Again, I shall merely say - you're one to talk. Your argument is
based on no real data, and the content of this message is, to be
frank, inappropriate. Even if you think Greg was wrong, this is no
way to talk to a peer or a colleague.
I'm not really sure why you addressed this to me as well, since you
didn't address a single iota of what my messages to the list were
actually about, but I'm offended all the same by what you said.

Oh - and at $100/g, you made 2657g x $100g = $265,700 off of one month
working this fall.
At $50/g, 132,850
At $40/g, $106,280
At $30/g, $79,710
At $20/g, $53,140
At $5/g, $13,285

If your expenses were in the $20k range, which I'm assuming they were
given your stated costs, you made $240,000+ (at $100/g), off of this
fall. Or if you kept 2kg of material, and sold a mere 660g you got
paid ~$50,000 and 2kg of West for your month of work.

Just thought I'd crunch some numbers...I'll say nothing about what
they might mean, though I think the people to whom you cc'd this
message will find them interesting enough.

I have to go; I have a 2pm class.

Jason
Received on Wed 04 Nov 2009 05:04:55 PM PST