[meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary chondrite?þ

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:06:51 +0100
Message-ID: <001001ca5d47$5151ffb0$07b22959_at_name86d88d87e2>

Hi Greg,

you're going wrong and wherefrom you came to your distorted image of the
meteorite world, is a riddle for me.

The nowadays remarkably risen prices for new falls out of Africa have in my
opinion other causes than you presume.
I'll try to delineate them later this day. (Cause now we have to prepare the
premiere of an unique new planetary).

Let you be told, that your beloved Mike Farmer brought several new observed
falls out at very moderate prices. I remind you to Ourique, the last
European fall before the price explosion, which he introduced at a very
cheap 10$/g - while all following European falls up to day, realized a
multiple of that level and if again an ordinary chondrite will fall in
Europe, you can be sure, that it won't be available below 50$ a gram. I
remind you, that he established in U.S. the extremely low price level of
Dashoguz = Kunya-Urgench of a few single bucks per gram, although the
overall availability of that fall was very limited and I remind you, that
his Thuathes certainly didn't max out the pain threshold of the collectors.

I'm far from defending Farmer, but it disturbs me that in recent times
permanently a picture is drawn here on the list of meteorite hunters and
dealers being bloodhounds and greedy sharks by people who joined the
meteorite scene the shortest while ago and who are still suffering from a
lack of experience and insights,
and who are excessively profiting from the great work, the meteorite people
have performed all the years before.

Regards,
Martin


PS: I think, Farmer should be readmitted to the list again, if he can
control his temper.

But even more I'd insist that Terry Boudreaux shouldn't be banned any
longer.
A remarkable collector, one of the greatest and most social committed people
I know in the scene,
whose only "misconduct" was to raise his voice a single time against a
person, who was allowed to terrorize the list for the following 3 years.
That expulsion was highly arbitrary and unreasonably disproportional.

We have to counteract the degradation of this list.


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg
Catterton
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 05:18
An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary
chondrite??

Hi to all, I thought I would add my 2 pennies...

I would have to disagree, I think the more hunters, the cheaper the material
due to more people having material for sale and less chance for a select few
"friends" to set what they all will charge.

Look at it this way (its how I do anyway)
Compare Carancas... It sold for $100 per gram and they had to travel from
the USA to Peru.

West... it also sold for $100 per gram and they had to travel to Texas from
the USA (many only one or two states away)

What costs more? The travel to Texas or Peru?

Carancas had a much lower TKW then West (west TKW is more then double), made
a crater and had a ton on media not to mention was of much more scientific
importance then west due to the circumstances of the fall, crater and events
that surrounded it.

Thanks to Mike Farmer, the media attention around Carancas doubled. (not
really a bad thing, but more a fact - his "escape" made for great reading
and a neat story.)

Its my opinion, however unpopular, that new falls are about getting as much
profit as possible as fast as possible... I also think inaccurate reports of
TW lead to the higher price of West - I still see people clearly stating
that only about 3 kilos were recovered when I know of many who walked away
with several kilos themselves!

Another example of West and meteorite politics (which leads to these high
prices)... The same people who were ready to exclude and not "allow" people
to the AZ fall location (and used the excuse "we dont want others running in
our backyard like they did in west") were actually the same ones doing just
that to others backyards at West.

I really think that the price is more about who gets there first and who is
"allowed" to hunt the field.
Meteorites are competitive and my eyes were opened to just how much so due
to recent falls.

When I first got into meteorites, I thought it was a pretty open group that
welcomed newer members/collectors and future hunters. I quickly found out
that not many are willing to "help the competition" and its basicly dog eat
dog.

Sure, many are willing to help you build your collection by selling you
meteorites, but very few are actually willing to lend/offer first hand
teaching and "in field" experience to those that want to learn from the
people that are supposed to be "the best".

I know my thoughts on this topic are not too popular with some, but I am
honestly speaking from what I have seen looking in from the sidelines.

Greg C.



--- On Tue, 11/3/09, al mitt <almitt at kconline.com> wrote:

> From: al mitt <almitt at kconline.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive ordinary
chondrite??
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 9:22 PM
> Hi Greg and all,
>
> While I think there are a lot of good points on why this
> meteorite was expensive, I think there is another factor in
> all this as well.
> The more people, meteorite hunters, collectors and so on
> that descend on a fall, the more expenses that have to be
> added into the cost. If you only have 50lbs (22.7 kilos) of
> material (for example) and fifty hunters, the cost for
> travel, motel, time and effort and payment to land owners
> will make that fall higher in price. If only a half dozen
> hunters search the area then the price would be
> substantially less. This assumes that they all find an
> average amount of material.
>
> I realize there is no way of knowing for certain how much
> material survived passage or can be found but seems if every
> meteorite hunter in a two thousand mile radius heads out and
> there are more hunters than material we're in for an
> expensive fall.
>
> I've heard some comments about fewer searchers then better
> chance of hunters price fixing but I don't think this would
> happen in most cases. I believe in the credibility of most
> hunters and collectors. As I have said many times before,
> ultimately it is what someone is willing to pay for an item
> that will dictate the price of material. Usually about a
> year after the fall is the best priced material. Well my two
> grams worth.
>
> All my best!
>
> --AL Mitterling
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Stanley"
<stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
> To: <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek the most expensive
> ordinary chondrite??
>
>
>
> > All:
> >
> > I think the reason Ash Creek has a higher value is
> because of the publicity. It was major news among the
> meteorite community; even outside the meteorite community.
> Also, it was the first fall/find that occurred in the US for
> a number of years, and was captued on video. This all
> created the increased interest and demand, and thus
> increased the price. The Buzzard Coulee meteorite was also
> much larger (TKW) and did not receive the same marketing as
> Ash Creek.
> >
> > One thing that I do find odd is that there are NWA's
> and even OC's that demand high dollars compared to others
> that are the same classification. It just boils down to
> supply/demand and some good marketing and publicity. I may
> pay hundreds of dollars for a meteorite and be satisfied,
> while someone else may think it has little value. That's one
> of the things that makes it such an interesting hobby.
> >
> > Greg S.
>
>
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Received on Wed 04 Nov 2009 07:06:51 AM PST