[meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:54:57 -0700
Message-ID: <93aaac890905172154t3c46b1dg48665532a2a03b4a_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hola Greg,
Interesting point, but kind of moot; while you are correct in stating
that Adam is assuming relatively little financial risk in listing
items with starting bids of $0.99, if you have problems with the
prices they're fetching, the people you should be complaining to are
collectors, not him. In this case, he's not the one setting the
price.
But then I suppose the question would be - if dealers are artificially
inflating prices - and then collectors are believing that these rocks
are actually worth that much - who's to blame? Do you blame the
masses for their ignorance? Or do you blame the people trying to sell
them at $1,000/g in the first place? It's a collector's market, Greg,
and in this case, supply seems to be pretty much at the level of
demand. Lunars are listed for that much - and they sell, so prices
clearly aren't too high. I'd like it if they were lower, but things
being what they are...well, they are what they are. I personally
wouldn't pay $1,000/g for a Lunar, so I don't buy them. The one small
slice we did buy (ever) was at $650/g, which is a price I consider to
be fair, even considering that the monzogabbro NWA 4734 was initially
being sold for $250/g directly from Morocco. I know because I edited
the original seller's email to the met-list and forwarded it for him.*
 To that end, you're asking over four times the original asking price
of the material you're selling. I wonder where the money went...
Regards,
Jason

*In retrospect, his asking price was $250/g. The selling price,
especially for larger specimens, was undoubtedly less.



On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM, GREG LINDH <geeg48 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> ? ?Adam,
>
> ?Look, I understand that you're a big time hunter/dealer. ?I'm just a
> relatively new collector who has had to put my collecting on hold due to the
> "fantastic economy". ?So, I don't claim to know nearly as much as you as far
> as values, etc... ?But, right now, you have a 362 mg Dhofar 910 lunar which
> started out at $.99 and has already been bid up several times so that the
> bid now stands at $152.50. ?The time remaining until the auction ends is 1
> day, 18hours. ?As far as I'm concerned, the most important fact follows.
> Everyone knows that the real action as far as bidding is concerned takes
> place in the last 30 seconds of the auction. ?Right? ?So, let's say that the
> bidding keeps rising between now and the end of the countdown. ?Who knows
> how high it will have gotten to by the time you have 30 seconds left. ?I can
> only assume from past experience that it will be higher than the present
> $152.50. ?Then, during that last 30 seconds of the auction things will
> really begin to pop. ?In the end, your "Very Last", "Rare" meteorite will
> have sold for what? ?I think a whole bunch more than $.99. ?Right? ?So, just
> saying that you put up lunar meteorites for $.99 is really meaningless. ?You
> know that the bidding will drive the price up into the stratosphere.
> ?The same thing can be said for your NWA 5000 (a spectacular meteorite, by
> the way). ?It started at $.99, but its already up to $331.00. ?The time
> remaining until the end of that auction is 1 day, 17 hours. ?Again, my guess
> is that it will continue to rise in price over the next day or so, reach the
> 30 second mark and then once again, its price will explode. ?So, once again,
> the $.99 beginning price is meaningless.
> ?As I said earlier, I'm just a small time collector. Once, I discussed the
> way the bidding process works here on the List about 2 years ago, and I had
> a dealer at that time write to me and give me a rather uncharitable lecture.
> In his emails to me, he didn't address me as "Greg". ?No, no, he addressed
> me as "Mr. Tight Ass". ?He said that I should be happy to bid multiple times
> and very high so that he and other dealers would be able to stay in
> business. ?Personally, I found his "reasoning" to be a bit disingenuous.
> When he goes into to buy a car, and the dealer says, this car cost $30,000,
> I wonder if he would say to the dealer, "No, no, here let me help you out.
> I wouldn't want you to go out of business, so I'm going to give you $80,000
> for the car." ?Yeah, right!
> ?I've observed a few things in my time perusing this List over the past
> couple of years. ?One of the more important things is that there are some
> dealers who seem to give a more fair deal than others.
> ?I'm not going to put you into a category, one way or the other. ?I'll just
> say that I have found some dealers who have treated me with respect (a rare
> treat, indeed), and have also priced their goods in such a way that I was
> able to buy a few nice pieces.
> ?For what it's worth, that's the way I see things here.
>
> ?Regards,
> ? ? ? ? ? Greg Lindh
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> To: "Adam" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale
>
>
>
> How is this gouging people, over a $1,000.00 worth of lunar material started
> at just 99 cents? This material has been running long before this
> conversation started.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140320408963
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200341681245
>
>
> I have several auctions running, all started at just 99 cents. Let the buyer
> decide who is or is not gouging as this is a ridiculous statement when it
> comes to me and has no merit whatsoever.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, GREG LINDH <geeg48 at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> From: GREG LINDH <geeg48 at msn.com>
>> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale
>> To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com
>> Cc: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:25 PM
>>
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>>
>> Actually, it has *everything* to do with
>> competition. There are those on this List, though they
>> be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they
>> sell a meteorite. Too many dealers charge outrageous
>> prices for similar products. Inevitably, I read posts
>> from the high priced dealers putting down those dealers who
>> give a better bargain.
>> I'll say it again, it has everything to do
>> with competion. As one who has limited financial
>> resources, I have always appreciated those dealers who give
>> a good product, while charging a *fair* price.
>> Sometimes I have to laugh and just shake my head when I see
>> some of the "deals" being offered by the more unreasonable,
>> high charging dealers.
>>
>> Greg Lindh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700
>> > From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com
>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for
>> sale
>> >
>> >
>> > This has nothing to do with competition. It has
>> everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate
>> nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector
>> confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is
>> a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers
>> who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before.
>> There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites
>> that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing
>> incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar
>> before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a
>> Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being
>> in a hurry to put it on the market.
>> >
>> > To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered
>> the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the
>> article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine
>> stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate
>> Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction
>> of its cost if the find location and history are not known.
>> >
>> > Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what
>> has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One
>> well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who
>> stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly
>> objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our
>> stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be
>> a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to
>> science.
>> >
>> > I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated
>> the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights
>> have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a
>> shame to lose control.
>> >
>> > I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar
>> material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the
>> Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name
>> assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of
>> the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice.
>> Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins
>> so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any
>> different?
>> >
>> >
>> > Best Regards,
>> >
>> > Adam
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone &
>> Ironworks wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available
>> for sale
>> >> To: "Greg Catterton"
>> >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM
>> >> Be careful Greg, now that you are
>> >> offering planetaries at reasonable
>> >> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition
>> by the
>> >> big guys -
>> >> then they will start stabbing you in the
>> back. Those
>> >> who are driven
>> >> by money are threatened by those like us who don't
>> give a
>> >> crap about
>> >> profits. ;)
>> >>
>> >> Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on
>> my fair
>> >> share of lunars,
>> >> I'd buy a piece.
>> >>
>> >> Good luck.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards
>> >>
>> >> MikeG
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from
>> you.
>> >> Anyone who claims I did,
>> >>> I invite them post the email where I made
>> that
>> >> claim...
>> >>>
>> >>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday
>> to Tony
>> >> Irving and the test
>> >>> results will speak for themselves as to what
>> this is -
>> >> however Im sure
>> >>> anyone can see the picture of what I have:
>> >>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg
>> >>> and compare it with this:
>> >>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg
>> >>>
>> >>> I want to state for the record, I am selling
>> this for
>> >> less becouse I dont
>> >>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell
>> >> meteorites to make a living,
>> >>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help
>> increase
>> >> my personal
>> >>> collection.
>> >>> I know what I paid for this and if the others
>> who have
>> >> this paid anywhere
>> >>> close to what I did, they could sell it for
>> half what
>> >> they do and still
>> >>> triple the money they put into it - even with
>> cutting
>> >> loss.
>> >>>
>> >>> I know who I got it from is honest and
>> reliable as for
>> >> the authenticity.
>> >>>
>> >>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing
>> is done,
>> >> but when it is, I will
>> >>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram...
>> >>>
>> >>> Greg C.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: habibi abdelaziz
>> >>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale
>> >>>> To: "meteorite list"
>> >>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com
>> >>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM
>> >>>>
>> >>>> hi greg
>> >>>> this material is not from me ,
>> however
>> >> it looks like
>> >>>> the monzoggabro,
>> >>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo
>> >>>>
>> >>>> aziz
>> >>>> habibi aziz
>> >>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco
>> >>>> phone. 21235576145
>> >>>> fax.21235576170
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> .........................................................
>> >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>> >> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>> >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and
>> >> http://www.glassthrower.com
>> >>
>> ..........................................................
>> >> ______________________________________________
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>> >>
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Received on Mon 18 May 2009 12:54:57 AM PDT