[meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 09:04:38 -0500
Message-ID: <e51421550905100704gc447a97h7186fee8265edccb_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Doug and List -

What I should have said, instead of "third world" was - "medieval"

Either way, I'd like to throw 1kg UNWA chondrites at the thieves.

I noticed you said this in your excellent reply -

" these are three typical nerds gone completely
> unsupervised in the heart of America's treasure chest. It strikes me as
> odd that three interns with different backgrounds all passing the
> incredibly competitive and difficult intern selection process would all
> go for this, that would have left many of us in the dust
> intellectually. We are talking three highly talented people here that
> are all typical high achievers, great leaders, and hand picked by NASA
> for that quality specifically - not brainwashed zombies..."

One of my Dad's distant relatives came to visit us many years ago.
She had multiple college
degrees, including a doctorate she was quite proud of. She was also a
member of Mensa. This person didn't have the common sense to make ice
cubes or come in from the rain. Book smart, yes. Truly smart, no.
To this day, I have never seen such a staggering lack of common sense
in a human being. I've seen high school dropouts with more smarts.
So don't think just because NASA selected these interns, that they
must be brilliant minds. Afterall, the same NASA that selected them
is the same NASA that allowed them to steal the moon rock safe. Not
exactly a bunch of rocket scientists here - pun intended.

Their punishments were too lenient - all of them. What's more, the
government should have been called to task publicly for this one.
Instead, it was quietly swept under the rug and everyone at NASA hoped
nobody outside Johnson noticed. These thieves should spend the rest
of their adult lives working in fast food drive-through windows making
minimum wage - to further educate them on the public dollar is a
disgrace. To allow them high-paying jobs after this is also
disgraceful - public dollar or not.

Best regards,

MikeG



On 5/9/09, Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com> wrote:
> Hello Walter, List!
>
> This theft of Moon rocks story has seriously been the embarrassment of
> the century for JSC. Thankfully time is passing and wounds are healing.
> It was a very sad chapter for responsibility and ethics for the entire
> academic community.
>
> Mike said:
> "Tie up the thieves to poles out in the open (third world style) and
> pelt them mercilessly with weathered-up UNWA from the Tucson bargain
> bin. ;)"
>
> Mike, EDITORIAL
> The comment "Third World Style" just hit a nerve. Did you know he
> dreamed on going on ANSMET expeditions?
>
> Mr. Roberts nearly served out his entire term (served 7 and a half
> years) without much judicial mercy, which was twice the guideline as
> the judge was responding to political pressures in sentencing. When you
> say,
>
> "The "ringleader" was sentenced to 8 years in prison - which here in
> America means he probably served about 2-3 years and then walked.
> non-violent crime, ivy league white defendant with previously clean
> record, good behavior and early release"
>
> It's a bit inciting and unrelated to this case, even you are just
> expressing general frustration with the United States judicial system
> which many of us may and may not agree. I suspect the judge who
> sentenced these aspiring scientists shared this line of thinking. Oh,
> Roberts was definitely not Ivy League. He lifted himself up and then
> crashed and burned all by his own bootstraps.
>
> The political nature of w
> hat happened is the driver here. Far from the
> research and material allegedly compromised (Is there any specific
> place in the scientific literature where this was cited as compromising
> results?), it was a shot into the heart of public faith of national
> curation of taxpayer financed recovered material from the moon and
> ANSMET in what NASA would like everyone to have believed was the Fort
> Knox of science. Mr. Roberts was made a whipping boy to divert
> attention from the whole fiasco as this sort of failure IMO should have
> had much greater repercussions. Sure, some positive changes were made
> as a result, but who can say with a straight face that "rogue interns"
> are only to blame, and weave a Tom Clancy novel out the smokescreen.
> The labeling of them as "Rogue Interns" at te time only gives me the
> willies that taxpayers' were being mislead, a rogue asteroid, maybe,
> but please ... these are three typical nerds gone completely
> unsupervised in the heart of America's treasure chest. It strikes me as
> odd that three interns with different backgrounds all passing the
> incredibly competitive and difficult intern selection process would all
> go for this, that would have left many of us in the dust
> intellectually. We are talking three highly talented people here that
> are all typical high achievers, great leaders, and hand picked by NASA
> for that quality specifically - not brainwashed zombies...
>
> Consider the punishment for the two=2
> 0female accomplices. They received
> no prison time (a special waiver from sentencing guidelines), and were
> able to continue their education so they could make a positive
> contribution to society. Now, if I am to understand the arguments of
> the prosecution, Mr. Roberts was the "Mastermind" who was the brightest
> of the bunch, and the other two were zombies that just had temporary
> lapses of judgement. However, elsewhere Fowler is described as a woman
> who challenged Cool Hand Thad to the point of earning his great respect
> and becoming his dream girl. If I follow that so-called genius logic,
> it was mastermind Roberts who could have made the most valuable
> contributions to society, yet he was the only intern they nailed (and
> Darren claims Bubba did too). Of course I don't follow that logic. I
> just suspect "third-world" justice was imparted and it was an implicit
> case of gender discrimination for a more noble cause of needing a
> scapegoat, as the women no doubt were equally qualified in everything
> and probably more meticulous instead of arrogant fools likeThad
> Roberts.
>
> I suspect that the theft was not much more difficult to execute than a
> bunch of high-schoolers stealing a road sign due to the lack of a few
> minor but key appropriate controls. I mean, these guys stole a 600
> pound safe from JSC - and carted it out on a WalMart dolly which they
> bought a few hours before, in all this said to be "premeditation for
> 0Amonths". Many things just don't exactly add up on a critical reading.
>
> Mr. Robert's view is especially amusing in understanding his motives
> here. He justified the whole thing by saying that these rocks would not
> be missed because they were already contaminated as they were used
> leftover returns of material that had been subjected to scientific test
> and which was supposedly never to be used again - (apparently there is
> some basis to this, though rife with misinterpretation). He argued that
> the rocks were locked up never to see the light of day again and thus
> he was doing a favor, this physics geek, by liberating them. Perhaps
> his real motivation, was his own admission of being out of his league,
> but hopelessly obsessed, in trying to impress to assist in getting
> intimate with former Texas cheerleader, Ms. Fowler, the whole time pic:
> http://www.baylor.edu/content/imglib/19876.jpg . So much that it had
> destroyed his marriage with his wife Kaydee at the same time this whole
> thing was planned (Kaydee herself a woman with a superb and strong
> mind). So Roberts was clearly messed up as a boy in a broken marriage
> trying to impress his new exciting woman he thought he couldn't have.
> He went to the extreme to get her attention...
>
> Now, 8 years later the first thing he does when he is released, this
> diabolical guy does - is go after her again to beg to resume an 8-year
> old intimate relationship. Well, I'm sure jail war
> ped his mind, but it
> doesn't meet the smell test for "manipulative" and "mastermind" that he
> was labeled with - more evidence of a nerd who just never understood
> the real world; that this was third-world justice of the most arbitrary
> kind, and this guy was just wetting his diapers like the rest of them
> while dreaming he was Mr. Crown of the Thomas Crown Affair pursuing
> Rene Z.
>
> This story is nothing new, just a variant of the 2004 article posted to
> the list from the LA Times. Except, I hadn't notice the comment that
> Mr. Roberts and Ms. Fowler laid out all the stolen rocks on a bed in a
> hotel room and had intimate relations among the stolen moon rocks and
> meteorites, shortly after their heist. Well, when comments like this
> start getting cycled, you can bet that a potential movie deal is not
> far off. That is the only all-American part I see in this whole scandal.
>
> One of the oddest things to me was the claim that there were 6
> notebooks containing a researcher's original notes packed in the safe
> with the rocks. Apparently this claim was never proven despite the
> FBI's forensic resources. Considering all of the interns turned against
> each other looking for clemency, I find it surprising, that this was
> categorically denied, if in fact, they had been there. What is even
> more amusing is that a scientist would store his notebooks in the
> relatively small safe with all of these specimens. Of course it
> is
> possible, but it just seems awfully strange that handwritten unbackedup
> notes of 33 years of one leading researcher would be commingled with
> Lunar material under any conditions, rather than store them with his
> own things. In any case again, at first reading and makes you think
> twice, considering this was the most experienced lab in the world...
>
> In the end, what happened with Fowler, who was an equal during the
> theft?
>
> Ans: She is a graduate student now at Texas A&M College Station in
> Wayne Versaw's group being financed by the US government under an NSF
> grant. That's taxpayer supported. I am sure she is a bright woman, and
> life hasn't been easy, so if you root for the underdog, I guess it is
> almost admirable what she's managed to do...
>
> And What of Shae Saur, the younger woman who wanted a piece of the
> action and acted as the lookout during the operation, and kept the
> stolen goods in her storage locker while these dreamers went about
> emailing the hot goods for sales?
>
> Ans: She became president of the Society of Women Engineers as she
> worked on her engineering degree at the University of Texas in San
> Antonio. I can't help think of the reforms she must have made to
> deserve this, not to mention that here again is an example of a woman
> that is a leader, not an automaton programmed by ol' Roberts, acting of
> all things - as a role model to women engineers.
>
> And what of Axe
> l?
>
> Ans: He was a list contributor a while back. But it seems he never
> received a thank you token Moon Rock from NASA as others including
> myself thought would be most appropriate.
>
> I?ll stop there, because the rest of the actors will most likely
> receive a bit of unneeded notoriety when the movie comes out...
>
> Best wishes,
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walter Branch <waltbranch at birch.net>
> To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sat, 9 May 2009 2:35 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks
>
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> You really should consider switching to decafe ;-)
>
> -Walter Branch
> -----------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks"
> <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> I did finally click on some of the embedded links in the story and saw
> the FBI followup article. The "ring leader" was sentenced to 8 years
> in prison - which here in America means he probably served about 2-3
> years and then walked. (non-violent crime, ivy league white defendant
> with previously clean record, good behavior and early rel
> ease)
>
> IMO, that sentence should have been 10 years served to deter any
> future idiocy of that nature.
>
> It made me sick to my stomach to imagine the loss of data and study
> potential these specimens suffered at the hands of these criminals.
> As a collector it rankles me, I cannot imagine how the scientists
> studying the samples must have felt. Perhaps a more fitting sentence
> for the thieves would be stoning by ordinary chondrites. Tie up the
> thieves to poles out in the open (third world style) and pelt them
> mercilessly with weathered-up UNWA from the Tucson bargain bin. ;)
>
> So, is there any list of missing lunar samples? How many pilfered
> moon rocks are floating around the collector's market, or sitting in
> someone's safe?
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
>> Yes, a safe was lifted there,
>> as well as the part of the Good-Will Moon Rock, presented to Honduras
> was
>> stolen and was tried to be trafficked in USA.
>> Currently the Apollo-sample of Malta is missing.
>>
>> Once I saw a strange documentation (was it on BBC or on discovery?),
> where
>> it was stated, that most of the Apollo-samples once distributed to
> the
>> nations of the World would have been lost and are missing.
>> Is that true?
>> (was a strange documentati
> on, a man with a big belly and a full beard
>> driving an old car was shown as to be the "special agent" of NASA, >
> searching
>> for the missing Moon rocks...).
>>
>> Let's open a new thread: Identify the Moon Rock given to your
> country!
>>
>> I start.
>> Germany should have 3 Moon Rocks.
>> Two are given on permanent loan - one to the Technische Museum
> Berlin,
>> the other is housed in the exhibition of the Ries-Crater-Museum in
>> Noerdlingen (the astronauts got their a geological training in the
>> Ries-Crater by Eugene Shoemaker).
>> The Good-Will-piece donated to the Federal Rep. of Germany (don't
> know
>> whether the former German Democratic Rep. got one too?),
>> must be somewhere in the Deutsche Museum in Munich.
>> Wasn't a longer time there, have to go there again,
>> so I don't know, whether it's currently on display or somewhere in
> the
>> storage (museums in Germany are sometimes somewhat strange in
> estimating, > if
>> an item could be attractive for the visitors or not...).
>>
>> Best!
>> Martin
>>
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com]
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 16:11
>> An: Martin Altmann
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks
>>
>> I
> s the story true? I read it and it sounds like pop-culture fiction.
>>
>> I've never heard anything about this elsewhere.
>>
>> If it's true, the thieves should be treated like Moon Rocks -
>> sterilized and then locked up forever.
>>
>>
>> On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
>>> Was that article an exercise in style?
>>>
>>> At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe,
>>> everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a
> paperback >> :-)
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> Pete
>>> Pete
>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 12:58
>>> An: cynapse at charter.net; meteoritelist meteoritelist
>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thieves.....I hate them!
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> From: cynapse at charter.net
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks
>>>>
>>>> http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecen
> tral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and
> http://www.glassthrower.com
>> ..........................................................
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
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>>
>
> -- .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and
> http://www.glassthrower.com
> ..........................................................
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
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> ______________________________________________
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-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

Received on Sun 10 May 2009 10:04:38 AM PDT