[meteorite-list] Can The The Met-List Be Reborn?

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:39:14 -0400
Message-ID: <e51421550907241439k4da00f6kf04e6d1e91d06c96_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eric and List,

I agree with some of your sentiments here. In my 2 years on the List,
I have been embarassed by my own behavior a couple of times. But I
have never been embarassed by another List member's behavior until
this recent barrage of bickering. These past couple of weeks have
been the most tumultuous and argumentative I have ever seen during my
time reading this List. It also contained some foul language and
sexual innuendo which I had not seen previously. I think some members
of the List stooped to new lows and embarassed us all. However, I
don't think it's the end of the List or an apocalypse that is going to
bring down meteorites. The recent nastiness was rather simple,
despite the verbose nature of it -

1) Mike Farmer and Steve Arnold went at it over Meteorite Men and hype.

2) Mike Farmer and a handful of List members had strong words over the
new Arizona Fall that Mike is working with Dr. Schrader.

3) The recent re-appearance of Chicago Steve, after a brief hiatus,
dredged up some hostile feelings and resulted in more harsh words.

Notice a common theme here?

Professional (or quasi-professional) dealers and hunters - i.e. people
whose financial security depends on meteorites.

Some collectors and voices from the peanut gallery weighed in as the
conflict progressed, but the root cause of the extended chaos can be
traced back to the three factors listed above.

I'm not blaming Mike, Steve #1 or Steve #2. What I am blaming is the
competitive nature of any workplace that involves financial security -
it's no different than salemen carrying grudges around the water
cooler of a struggling dealership. It has nothing to do with
meteorites or the people who collect them. If you people think this
recent spate of fighting is bad, then I guess none of you have seen
the old USENET - which makes this List look like a bunch of nuns and
saints. Of course, I didn't like the atmosphere of most of the USENET
groups and I don't want to see this List go in that direction - but I
think we should put this into perspective. There are over 900 people
on this List and the vast majority of them were silent during this
free for all - you can bet they will adjust their shopping habits
accordingly, based on how they interpreted what they saw here.

And worse yet, I saw several opportunities for serious meteorite
discussion that were ignored during this recent round of fighting -
several of us posted messages in an attempt to deflect attention from
the fighting and back to meteorites. These messages were largely
ignored. This dynamic can also work in reverse - just ignore those
who are breaking the rules and acting up repeatedly. Most email
clients have a block sender or filter option. Simply copy/paste the
email address of the loudmouth in question into the proper filter form
under your email options - and voila, no more idiocy.

Sadly, a couple more List members ended up in my filters this week.

I don't think there is any reason to re-invent the wheel or for Art to
closely moderate the List (which is a lot of work) - instead, list
members should use their email filter options - that is what those
filters are for. It's like a mute button for fools, use it.

Best regards and METEORITES! ;)

MikeG



n 7/24/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi listees, all you long time members, and list founders,
>
> Last Call For All...
>
> I started writing this last night and have pieced together some of what
> I think to be the most important parts of some emails answers I've sent
> from the responses I received yesterday and throughout today.
>
> Since my email yesterday I've noticed an increase in actual meteorite
> related posts. I'm impressed and thankful for that. Maybe it was my
> post, maybe it wasn't, but so I don't mess things up this is the last
> email like this I will write as I don't want to beat a dead horse. It's
> been said too many times. Then I will recede into the realm of met-list
> history and former members if something is not done about the rampant
> whiners, complainers, hypocrites and haters.
>
> The Met-List is a great place for meteorite people to come together and
> discuss meteorites. I was warned before I joined by some very prominent
> people in this biz to be prepared for some things not related to
> meteorites, and that the Meteorite List was becoming a complainers haven.
>
> "Fine I have no problems with that..." I said...
>
> That was about two years ago...
>
> You notice most of the really big names in the business shy away from
> the list, or if they are members they do not post much if at all. They
> might be members, but they simply read the emails and never respond to
> anything unless it's absolutely related to meteorites or something they
> are passionate about. I won't mention any names, but they are legends
> and great and mighty meteorite hunters and researchers. They don't post
> for a reason. The list has gotten spoiled, and the whiners took over
> long before I became a member.
>
> Most professionals and true meteorite enthusiasts rarely post anything
> but good solid quality meteorite related information, links, videos,
> articles and papers. They almost never respond to the childish BS,
> games, and disputes that get posted publicly. They are very professional
> and kind.
>
> I agree that there should be freedom of speech, no censorship, and
> responsibility on the part of each member.
>
> However there needs to be ground rules. Even more so there needs to be
> "enforcement" of those rules.
>
> In case anyone has not read the rules posted on the MeteoriteCentral.com
> website here's the rules for ya... Not that these rules haven't been
> posted before, but here they are again!
>
> General List Policies
>
> * Posts need to relate -in some way- to meteorites
> * Be courteous and professional at all times
> * Please include the 'subject' of the post in the subject box
> * Send emails in text format, not -HTML-
> * Do not send emails with -file attachments- to the list - include a
> file link
> * Make sure you can back up statements with -facts and references-
> * Do not post -major advertisement- emails to the list- include a
> 'sale' link
> * If you are posting a URL for a sale, include 'SALE' in the subject box
> * Do not post messages for somene else to the List.
>
> Now, Art has shown much restraint in his enforcing of the rules. In my
> opinion he's too lenient and the rules need to be enforced more than
> they have been. Rules are there for a reason, and Art has been more than
> tolerant of all the BS on-list for a very long time.
>
> However, we all know that ignoring the problem and wishing it away is
> not the way to go. Art needs to stand up and suspend some of the offenders.
>
> It's time for some ball bashing! Cut the crap, suspend some members and
> don't play the games any more.
>
> If Art wants to suspend me for calling him out and/or posting my rant
> yesterday, then so be it, at least show the list that the rules mean
> something! No this is not an attack on Art or other list founders...
>
> It's a WAKE UP CALL!
>
> List owners have fallen asleep at the wheel, and in the name of freedom
> of speech and liberty they're forgetting the rules and not enforcing
> them, thereby allowing the members to take control of the list, forcing
> new members to leave, and prospective members to never bother signing up
> in the first place once they read through list posts. Some people forget
> that these list posts are PUBLIC! They don't just end up in your email
> box, they are online for all to see!
>
> I market the Met-List on most of my meteorite related websites. It's
> rather embarrassing as a member of the Met-List to have to explain to
> new list members that the list is NOT normally like this. I've had to do
> this on numerous occasions, especially recently. There is a lot of
> discussion and good things on the list but it's being drowned out by all
> the fluff and stuff that we don't care about as hobbiests, enthusiasts,
> scientists, collectors, researchers and dealers.
>
> The meteorite world is a much more public forum now. The explosive
> growth of this business, the media attention to fireballs and meteorite
> hunters, the introduction of the Meteorite Men TV show, and the
> increased public awareness has set new precedents and changed things in
> the meteorite world forever.
>
> This isn't the old met-list anymore. It's not OK to go by the same old
> rules.
>
> History shows that those who don't change get weeded out. If the
> Met-List doesn't change, the evolution of the meteorite world will chew
> it up and spit it out. I doesn't matter that there's 1000+ people on
> this list, many of those having been members for years, that will not
> save the list from the impending doom.
>
> What matters is change, this list will be nothing more than an email
> community dictated by debaters & haters, thereby making list life hell
> on the lurkers and collectors who enjoy the little actual meteorite
> related information that gets posted between all the lamer's posts. I
> for one and hoping things will change. But I'm afraid it might not...
>
> It actually says this on the MeteoriteCentral website:
>
> "...Other than increased numbers of participants, the list has remained
> the same since day one..."
>
> Now, so I don't get accused of taking things out of context, the line
> before that states "...My guess would be October (perhaps November) of
> 1996 saw the launching of the list as it is known today..."
>
> That's near 13 years according to my count. 13 years. Unchanged...
>
> Wow! If the list doesn't change soon, we aren't going to have a list
> left to change. Natural selection may be debatable according to the
> origins of man, but I can tell you something that is a known and solid
> fact. If you think never changing the list is the way to go, then be
> ready for the list to go under as the entire meteorite world passes you
> by. Sit back in your chairs and do nothing and the list will become extinct.
>
> All the hard work that the BIG GUYS have done over the years to bring
> the meteorite world into the public eye, and make it more main stream
> has come to fruition. The world is changing. Either change with it or
> get eaten up.
>
> Turn this list back into what it's supposed to be.
>
> The Meteorite List!
>
> And for those of you who're asking yourselves "Who the hell does he
> think he is?" my answer to you is...
>
> I am,
>
> Someone who loves meteorites...
> Someone who loves this business...
> Someone who seeks knowledge...
> Someone who seeks enlightenment...
> Someone who seeks understanding...
> Someone who seeks answers...
> Someone who seeks enjoyment...
> Someone who seeks happiness...
> Someone who looks at the world through wondering eyes and asks himself,
> why? How? What does that mean?
>
> Someone who is human...
>
> That's who I am. That's what I'm about.
>
>
> I'm you...
>
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Personal Site - http://www.glassthrower.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................

Received on Fri 24 Jul 2009 05:39:14 PM PDT