[meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please.

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:28:48 +0200
Message-ID: <000001ca07ab$b943a2a0$177f2a59_at_name86d88d87e2>

Yes,

Of course the purpose of such paintings was not to depict the themes in a
realistic or historical manner - but they are certainly more than just a
transfer or translation of a topic, a story, in the present time of the
painter.

For example in that picture you see all at once.
The destruction of Sodom, Lot and his daughters fleeing over the bridge,
while his wife looks back,
and the same Lot and his daughters in the foreground.

And such paintings are overloaded with symbols and conventions. Colours,
clothes, shapes, things, gestures, plants, animals.. they have a certain
meaning,
which the contemporary people knew, but which we don't understand today
anymore.
And with the composition of these elements the painters were playing and
giving a certain message.

Simple example - here you see from Lot only one leg - whenever you have man
and a woman on a renaissance picture close together and you have a leg
hidden or slung legs, then the contemporary beholders knew: Aha,
intercourse.
And why Leyden painted not normal bottles for the wine?
Note also, how active Lot is. In the text of the bible Lot is made drunk and
seduced by his daughters and in other paintings you will see lot depicted
passive and as an aged.

And what is the eye-catcher, the most pre-dominant element in that picture?
The red tent with the entrance. Not directly a subtle but a quite hefty
symbol...

Look there we have the fireball and the fire raining down on the town,
but the same fire you find in that torch-like object left of the tent.
So maybe the meaning could be, ooops, that's not so fine, what you're doing
there.

Why there is that carrion in that scene - I don't think, it's because they
had a barbecue - on the bridge there is a mule..
if it has to do with the bridge scene - maybe the stump or root which is so
strangely emphasized by the illumination is something similar like Lot's
wife on the bridge?
On the other hand, note how the stump and the diagonal branch repeat the
shape of the sinking ship...

Why he didn't paint it like Duerer?
http://xavi.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/durer_lot_sodom.jpg

He knew Duerer and maybe that's why he painted Sodom and Gomorrah as harbour
cities too?

No idea about that stuff.

Back to meteorites,
I only chose that picture because the fire from the sky looks similar to
other representations of meteorite falls,
Certainly isn't pictured a meteorite shower, but that is the solution of
Leyden how to paint:

"Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from
the Lord out of heaven."

Best!
Martin

PS:
>it was after all, the biggest city ever
>built up to that point in time and bigger than any
>other city yet built.

And what was with Asia? Angkor? China...

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Sterling
K. Webb
Gesendet: Samstag, 18. Juli 2009 04:43
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Cc: cdtucson at comcast.net
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please.

Hi,

    This is hardly about meteorites, but... While
the medieval artists probably worked in relative
ignorance of the true appearances of ancient
times, that becomes less and less true as time
goes by. Van Leyden certainly knew his perfect
little Northern European city is not what Sodom
looked like, not how boats were, not bridges, etc.

    It was not the purpose of the 16th, 17th, 18th
century artists to depict true classical or Biblical
history. They wanted to picture the life around
them as it was, and Bible stories and Greek and
Roman myths were just an excuse to have a cover
story (and to get a rich church or monastery to
buy the painting).

    Medieval and Renaissance Rome, for example,
still contained a vast sample of the ancient world's
appearance; it was after all, the biggest city ever
built up to that point in time and bigger than any
other city yet built. But that's not what artists were
interested in doing.

    It was not until the 19th century when suddenly
the true appearance of ancient times, foreign lands,
and other cultures became a theme for European
artists. So the painting that bothers Carl so much:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Leyden-Lot.png
is just a 16th century Dutch guy having a party
with a couple of girls while cosmic disaster strikes
all around him. It's like a bad movie (The Night of the
Comet or Armageddon) where people do the same
thing. How to get the respectable and churchy to pay
for it? It's.. ahh... it's Lot... Yeah, and the destruction
of Sodom! Yeah, that's the ticket. Wow! Lookit them
fireballs!


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please.


> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:52:33 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>The more I think of this painting the less I'm liking it. Why?
>>If I remember some of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah,
>>Lot's wife turned around, viewed the destroyed city and then
>>turned into a piller. This painting shows the bombardment
>>and at the same Lot's daughters are already underway in
>>getting their father drunk. This means they started this
>>before the bombardment. Lot's wife wasn't even dead
>>yet because they haven't started to leave the city.
>
> Not even close to the only problems with the painting-- such as the
> clothing and
> the technology show is contemporary to the time of the artist who
> painted it, no
> to the period being painted. The clothes are wrong, the bridge is
> wrong, the
> ships are wrong (and that's just from my memory of seeing it a day or
> two ago).
>
> Of course, the same is true of most other art of the period.
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Received on Sat 18 Jul 2009 09:28:48 AM PDT