[meteorite-list] A Curator Replies

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 12:04:35 -0400
Message-ID: <e51421550907080904n4e6437fclbba22bcabbefcf1e_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Peter,

Welcome to the List. :)

I do not speak for the list or a majority on it, so take my reply with
the appropriate grain (or block) of salt. ;)

I am an avid collector of meteorites and minerals (primarily
meteorites), and I am also a happily married man. I mention the fact
that I am married because there are parallels between the position of
the married collector and the curator. I too operate within a strict
budget and a set of rules that governs my ability to acquire and trade
specimens. I do not mean to make light of the matter, but simply to
say that I understand the necessity of balancing budget concerns and
working within a framework of acceptable trading practices. Some
wealthier collectors don't have this concern or it manifests to a
lesser degree in their collecting.

I want to thank you for taking the time to speak up and share your
views on this issue as it effects the meteorite world.

Speaking strictly as a collector, I would have little idea how to
contact a museum or curator to begin establishing a working
relationship that could include the exchange of specimens. The bigger
and more established dealers are not going to broadcast their methods
and connections to the rest of the world, so the next generation of
major collectors is left in a position of ignorance regarding how to
conduct business with museums and institutions. We either figure it
out ourselves through trial and error, or we rely on the bigger and
better-connected dealers to trade with the museums and then wait for
the specimens to trickle down through the open marketplace.

For example, how does a private collector approach a curator to open a
dialogue? Does one just Google the museum and get a street address,
phone number, or email address? And then contact the curator
directly? Many private collectors think such direct contact would be
frowned upon because the private collector may not have any official
credentials - academic or otherwise. We would not want to waste the
curator's time or make trouble for the museum staff. Also, I don't
have any idea what kind of rules govern the trade between private
individuals and museums/institutions. For example, I have a list of
trading partners I have cultivated during my time of collecting. We
often exchange specimens and the method involves the "honor system".
If I say to my private trading partner - "I really like your slice of
Barwell L5 chondrite, would you accept this fragment of Wold Cottage
in trade for it?" - and if the deal is agreed upon, we simply pack up
the specimen and mail it to the other party. There is no escrow or
legal contacts involved - simply a gentleman's agreement that each
person will live up to their end of the bargain. At any point, one
person could fail to live up to their part and steal the other party's
specimen - it's a risk of trading in this manner. (although it has
never happened to me in countless trades) As a private collector, I
would assume that museums and institutions that use public funds
cannot conduct business in such a manner as private parties do.
Surely there must be a vetting process of some kind to determine the
reliability of the private part, paperwork, etc. Such stipulations,
real or imagined, deter me from trying from conducting trades with
museums, universities, and the like.

I am one of those collectors who would love to see greater networking
and cooperation between every member of the meteorite community -
layperson and professional. But I am also one of those collectors
who has little idea how to go about doing it. Perhaps this List is
the perfect place to start. :)

Best regards,

MikeG


On 7/8/09, Peter Davidson <P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk> wrote:
> This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have
> only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked
> into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a
> curator. Please forgive this rather long mail.
>
>
>
> Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point,
> here goes.
>
>
>
> I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic?
>
>
>
> I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I
> can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from
> Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they
> are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in
> a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody
> on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just
> a little sexist. But I digress.
>
>
>
> Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private
> collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in
> some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict
> everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary.
> That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers
> (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a
> National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and
> protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose
> to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met
> shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a
> passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the
> notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to
> researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum
> curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly.
> When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and
> build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my
> collections.
>
>
>
> I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at
> governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain
> matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations
> of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some
> short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed
> to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the
> UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the
> consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of
> scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the
> public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the
> market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of
> publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different.
>
>
>
> Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can
> understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation
> everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to
> the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and
> scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list
> is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian
> Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when
> legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law.
>
>
>
> We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is
> well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops,
> either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If
> unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then
> it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed"
> but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place.
> However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to
> possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish
> falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess
> all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and
> frustration. But it is a situation I accept
>
>
>
> Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the
> short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these
> are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general
> workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network
> of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the
> benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in
> geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult
> to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange.
> Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open
> market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer.
>
>
>
> I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in
> favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who
> love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw
> material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through
> our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we
> would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I
> would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar
> with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only
> opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their
> curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and
> collect by seeing meteorites in a museum.
>
>
>
> Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails
> well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen
> this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The
> meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should
> be enough for everyone.
>
>
>
> Don't forget us!
>
>
>
> All donations gratefully accepted.
>
> Peter Davidson
> Curator of Minerals
>
> National Museums Collection Centre
> National Museums Scotland
> 242 West Granton Road
> Edinburgh
> EH5 1JA
> Phone: +44 131 247 4283
> p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> www.nms.ac.uk
>
>
>
>
> Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep.
> Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden
>
> National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
>
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-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

Received on Wed 08 Jul 2009 12:04:35 PM PDT