[meteorite-list] Arizona fall

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:19:19 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <54594.36261.qm_at_web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Interesting take on all of this, Martin,

I just wanted to add a few corrections to my initial post. I stated 150 pounds could be removed in a year. I reread my notes taken from what a BLM agent from Barstow said and they state that 25 pounds a day or 250 pounds a year can be legally brought out. This law was obviously written for mineral specimens that can easily be broken down in the field.

I guess if you find a meteorite on open federal land that weighs over 25 pounds, it will have to be broken into several pieces and brought out over a period of time to stay within the law. This is what happens when laws are bent to cover things they were not originally intended for.

Best Regards,

Adam

 


  
--- On Sun, 7/5/09, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:

> From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 6:24 PM
> Yes Jeff,
>
> in a positive sense, cause meteorites are certainly no
> resources.
> And else I can't find meteorites mentioned at all there.
>
> And if I follow the sentence (according Austrian laws)
> about the Austrian
> part of the Neuschwanstein fall, it offers an interesting
> aspect,
> which might has to be proven first:
>
> There they decided, that the meteorite (recovered 3 years
> after the fall)
> had NOT became part of the land it was found on.
>
> Interesting, isn't it?
>
> Anyway, we can indulge in legal persnicketinesses as long
> as we want,
> clear is,
> that we will totally ruin that subbranch of space and Earth
> science,
> the more crude laws come into force or are tried to be
> overstreched.
>
> Because if not private people would pick the meteorite up -
> like they did
> the 200 years before to deliver 90% or more of the
> non-Antarctic finds or
> falls, who else should do it?
>
> With West we heard that one single person from the science
> side entered the
> field. Art Ehlmann.
>
> Then we have a Suisse team searching Oman and that was it
> on Earth.
> Else sporadically some university teams, who recover always
> not more than 2
> or 3 stones, almost all old ordinary chondrites of minor
> scientific value.
>
> Antarctica is fine, but they can't bring the performance
> the private people
> are doing around the globe (that Antarcica is 100 times
> more expensive, one
> hasn't to mention anymore) and they can't recover fresh
> falls.
>
> If we want such a complete breakdown like in Australia,
> then we should carry
> on in inventing more and more restrictions.
>
> I'm writing from Europe, where half of the observed falls
> of the decade
> wouldn't have been recovered or noticed at all, if not
> private people would
> have cared for
> and where the tkws of very most of the other half would
> have stayed very
> tiny, if the private section hadn't added so many.
>
> It should be one of the most urgent missions of the
> Meteoritical Society in
> London to take care for politics and legislation around the
> world turning
> back to a state of reason and to grant that the very
> substance of that field
> of science won't be lost.
>
> Until that isn't achieved, hunters, scientists and
> collectors - come to
> Austria.
>
> Gosh, we're talking about meteorites. The most whack and
> strangest and
> rarest objects on Earth, without any cultural, economical
> or natural
> importance. And of solely scientific interest, where the
> researchers are
> glad and happy that people are going out to look for them.
> How anyone with a brain could come to the idea to make a
> law for meteorites?
>
>
> So - let's handle the case more pragmactically:
> Let Schrader, Farmer & Co. save the stones first and
> the strewnfield data,
> before we hang them for the crime to have recovered a new
> pristine fall for
> science and a fall of historical dimensions for the State
> of Arizona.
>
> Anybody else here, who feels the absurdity the same way
> like me?
> Martin
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> Im Auftrag von Jeff
> Grossman
> Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 02:37
> An: Meteorite-list
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall
>
> I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM
> employee
> thinks it does.? Very skeptical.
>
> jeff
>
> Adam Hupe wrote:
> > Dear List,
> >
> > A question came up about who owns meteorites found on
> federal land.
> >
> > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a
> browser that discusses
> removal of minerals from federal land.? I was told by
> a BLM officer that 150
> pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby
> purposes.? The BLM
> will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I
> found that they
> will even mail them to you free.? If you are caught
> removing minerals
> without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a
> year in jail.
> >
> > If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will
> have to be cut in the
> field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the
> Smithsonian may
> claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits
> from any object
> including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals
> from federal land.
> I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes
> taken.? I made some
> poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining
> what is and isn't
> acceptable to them to avoid future problems.
> >
> > The good news is that you can keep the meteorites!
> >
> > I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of
> this fall is well
> thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention
> there is monetary
> value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I
> have seen people do
> strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans
> when "Gold Fever"
> takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the
> ones that
> relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for
> meteorites themselves.
> They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all
> about long-forged
> friendships. They are best avoided all-together.
> >
> > Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in
> simple English:
> >
> >
> http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE
> _PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf
> >
> >
> > By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all
> around!
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Adam
> >
> > ______________________________________________
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> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >???
>
>
> --
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman? ?
> ???phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey? ? ? ? ?
> fax:???(703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
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Received on Sun 05 Jul 2009 10:19:19 PM PDT