[meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall

From: Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <452225.65747.qm_at_web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I am not asking you to do anything, I give a crap if you trust me or not, it does not need your approval. I said that the work is being done, you do not need to know the details. I have hunted falls on 6 of the 7 continents, I think I have learned over the last 13 years what a fall is. I also know about rainfall, and as I said, the stones have now been rained on, further rains will change little. Of course we want to get them as soon as possible, but we tried that in West and it did not work out so well. We will try much more low key here.
thanks for the advice.
Michael Farmer

--- On Sun, 7/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:

> From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall
> To: meteoritehunter at comcast.net
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 6:22 PM
> Mike,
> With all due respect, asking to trust you is a funny way to
> make a point. I know you are good Mike but nobody without a
> crystal ball can tell you how long a meteorite has sat on
> the ground. It takes science for that and I think you know
> that. I don't mean to sound insulting I just can't believe
> you believe what you are saying here. Wouldn't scientific
> proof of age on Earth be better than a guess?
> Although this area may be considered part of the Sonora
> desert , it is hardly defined that way based on rainfall. In
> fact we have the most lush desert in the world because we do
> get a lot of rainfall. Much more than a desert by definition
> gets. I believe it is over 10 inches officially but more to
> the point we have torrential flooding that kills and buries
> human bodies deep in mud for years before they can be found.
> Our rain is a serious event and our storms rank with the
> best of them. So,please don't try and kid us into believing
> that rain is no problem.
> I would be happy to help you save these little critters
> before they drown.
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> IMCA 5829
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- meteoritehunter at comcast.net
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Carl,
> >
> > If you can't tell new fall meteorites with their
> pristine blue-black crust and sheen, and grass embedded in
> them, then it is time for a new hobby. I know you have not
> seen more than the one photo but trust me,
> >
> > this fall is as fresh as it gets without hitting you
> on the head.
> >
> > Yes, the area is huge, only homework allowed Jack to
> find the fall site, driving around in circles wont help. You
> must go back to the beginning.
> >
> > Uof A's involvement is between Jack and them.
> >
> > West was a disaster, though the initial find and rapid
> movement to the lab was perfect, the onslought afterward is
> the problem.
> >
> > The rains have already come, so a few more wont change
> the fact that only the first few finds are still pristine,
> this is desert, so it is not like they are in Florida.
> >
> > Don't worry, they will be taken care of.
> >
> > Michael Farmer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: cdtucson at cox.net
>
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com,
> "Jack Schrader" <schraderj at rocketmail.com>
>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:46:16 PM GMT -07:00 U.S.
> Mountain Time (Arizona)
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the
> Arizona Fall
> >
> > Jack,
> > I am a newbie at this list but I have been hunting for
> many years. I also have had a few successes. Your success
> here is no small feat. I have just spent the better part of
> the past two days hunting with the best knowledge I could
> obtain. I have tried to do exactly as Darren recommends and
> you have already done.
> > I too am frustrated not by your actions but of the
> overwhelming size of the area in which to search.
> > The area from I-10 and highway 191 to north of Sierra
> vista in hundreds of square miles. I found first of all that
> most of that area is either Posted State land with No
> trespassing signs without a permit everywhere or area that
> does not resemble the terrain in your photos. Yes, I want to
> know your trick? I have put nearly 500 miles on my car and
> seen nothing but mining slag. I mean more slag than I have
> ever seen in my life.
> > My other question is ; what does U of A have to do
> with this? I ask because when I contact them they have zero
> interest in anything related to meteorites. Period. They
> simply refer all inquiries to either ASU or UCLA. They don't
> even have anyone there that wants to look at them.
> > Another question is who is going to study and do the
> radio nuclides test that Bernd spoke of? because without
> that you have no idea if this is from the fall ?we all just
> read about or another fall from the distant past.
> > another question is what do you mean about the West
> being done badly. I read the list and was under the
> impression that West was a textbook example of the right way
> to do things. Doug sent the first specimen off right away to
> Rubin and the rest is history.
> > I guess I am saying that many of us including me would
> be happy to follow your rules and learn from you and be a
> part if this and now is always better than later especially
> with the monsoons here. Many of this precious material WILL
> be lost if not collected quickly. If you live here you must
> already realize this. So. I ask you to please consider
> letting more of us in on this with your leadership and
> rules?
> > Oh and one other very important point. CONGRATS to
> you. And thank you for your consideration.
> > Carl
> >
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
> > IMCA 5829
> > Meteoritemax
> >
> >
> > ---- Jack Schrader <schraderj at rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear list members.
> > >
> > > I have today received an email from a person.?
> He sent the message to the list and not to me personally so
> you already know who this person is.? If he had sent the
> message to me personally, I would have treated it with
> complete confidentiality.? I feel that it is important to
> share the information I shared with him with the members of
> this list.? Most of the people on this list have been
> involved with the science of meteorites for many years and
> have already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only
> come from years of experience. This list has been very
> fortunate to have been joined by people who are new to the
> science and to the wonderful hobby of collecting
> meteorites.? His email was not sent to be malicious but was
> sent out of frustration and out of his enthusiastic desire
> to be able to look for a new meteorite and to actually find
> one for himself..? These people who hold this intense
> enthusiasm are the people we need in this science, this
> > > ?hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to
> venture out, find and be the first one to touch a stone that
> acually fell to earth from space.? I have copied the
> information I sent to him below.? I hope others who are
> experiencing similar feelings of frustration at the present
> time will benefit from this as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very
> important and historic fall for this state and for the
> University of Arizona in particular as the site is very
> literally in their own back yard.? It is vitally important
> that the area be protected for only as long as it takes to
> properly record and document the fall.? I have seen what
> happens to an area when?the location?is announced publicly
> too early.? The area is almost immediately deluged and over
> run with not only the true professional meteorite hunters
> who are actually trying to do something good and recover the
> stones properly with GPS coordinates and photographic
> evidence of the stones in situ but with every treasure
> seeker and rock hunter and curiosity seeker who could care
> less about the science but more about simply having
> something cool to show off to their friends.? This is okay
> too and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but
> right now is not the time for this.? This area is presently
>
> > > ?pristine and kin to a very delicate
> archaeological site.? The archaeologists need to do the
> proper work in the area before the "pot
> > > hunters" find it and destroy any information that
> could otherwise be learned from the site.? My intention is
> certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that
> can be recovered.? When you really give this some thought,
> you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul
> about this.? I discovered this remote area entirely on my
> own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years
> of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this
> site to myself and hunted it for months and months.? But
> the path I chose was simply to do the right thing.? I made
> a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for
> conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site.?
> Please do not worry.? You will get your opportunity to hunt
> the area.? There will be stones in this area to be
> recovered for years to come and you will find yours.? And
> they will be free, you will not have to buy anything.? The
> area as any area where meteorite have
> > > ?fallen either in recent or in ancient times is
> impossible to
> > > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking
> for a little time that it takes to be able to properly
> record this fall site so the information may be available to
> the University of Arizona and to any other institutions and
> meteoriticists in the world who may have an interest in the
> work that we will be doing.? It is too important to risk
> destroying the information at this point not only for the
> science that can be gained from the area but for the
> generations to come who may have an interest in learning
> more about the dynamics of meteors and the variety of strewn
> field types that they create.? I do appreciate your
> understanding.? My very best wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ? ? ?
> > >
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Received on Sun 05 Jul 2009 08:29:49 PM PDT