[meteorite-list] Other meteorites

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:10:07 -0800
Message-ID: <93aaac890912111510l3d136ef8i624147daa026da48_at_mail.gmail.com>

E.P., All,

Well, if you're advocating the return of every culturally relevant
artifact ever discovered to it's respective source culture, from a
moralistic point of view, I can see where you're coming from. The
only problem then becomes that no one's really going to agree with
you, and if you use that as justification for returning "stolen"
meteorites, well, your case isn't going to last long.

Especially with cases like Willamette where we have no proof that they
even knew it existed before Ellis Hughes found it. That's my main
issue with this case; there was simply nothing to say that it had any
cultural importance to them until they took the issue to court in
the...late 1990's, I believe. At which point the meteorite was
supposedly worth a goodly sum of money, so who can blame them...

Other meteorites like Casas Grandes and Winona - based on the
conditions of their finding, they seem much more likely to be seen as
cultural artifacts, though since their respective cultures haven't
come forward and even so much as asked for the meteorites to be
returned, forcing the return would simply seem counterproductive to
science. These things were lost and forgotten. Calling them
culturally relevant to todays people is simply pointless.

When such things become lost, they cease to be a part of culture and
become history.

Regards,
Jason

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:20 AM, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Jason -
>
>> > First off, I have no idea where or what the GR have as
>> their sacred mountain, but I can assure you that their
>> naming their casino "Sacred Mountain Casino" in no way
>> dishonors their religion. It simply would not have been
>> done. Period.
>>
>> It may or may not dishonor it - depends on your religion, I
>> suppose,
>
> It does.
>
>> and how you view gambling, but it's certainly taking part
>> of the natural/mystical aspect of Native American culture and
>> commercializing it for a profit.
>
> Not really.
>
>> > As far as any future legalities go, I suppose these
>> may be an isssue lawyers in court might decide. I won't play
>> lawyer with you here on the meteorite list. In real life,
>> you have to remember that Sacred Mountain Casino generates a
>> lot of money; real lawyers like money.
>
>> "I mean, why Willamette? ?Why not, say, Winona?
>> ?Casas Grandes? Hopewell? ?Bonita Springs? ?Navajo? ?All of
>> these had some importance to the native population, and all of these were >in turn taken away from their respective tribes."
>>
>> > A very good question. Why not? These meteorites are
>> >not only the cultural property of those of Native
>> >Descent living in those areas now, but of all the citizens
>> >who live in those areas today, and >their cultural rights
>> >should be recognized as well.
>
>> Because this just isn't making any sense!
>
> Not to you, but others may have a different view.
>
>> I agree - laws for such things should be in place to
>> preserve the archaeology and history of such sites,
>
> They are now.
>
>> but giving such
>> things back to their respective owners...what you're essentially saying is that any meteorite that was known to Native Americans back before
>> White folks came should belong to them because it has cultural
>> significance.
>
> No, what I am saying is that stolen property will be returned.
>
>>Now you're going to have to start returning every single relic and artifact in every museum across the world to its respective
>> place of origin so that the descendants of the people who made it
>> can have it back, because of it's cultural relevance.
>>
>> ?Every. ?Single. ?Artifact.
>
> Not too bad an idea, and it is often being done now.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Fri 11 Dec 2009 06:10:07 PM PST