[meteorite-list] SETS: The Search for Extra-terrestrial Stupidity- changed to Hibben by EPG

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:33:14 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <546689.88845.qm_at_web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dirk, all -

While I am pretty stupid now, that was not always the case.

"Hibben maintained his innocence until his death."

Hibben had four misfortunes:
1) to have his observations used by Velikovsky
2) to find a pre-clovis site
3) to have a head wound
4) to be surrounded by jealous and petty "colleagues"

"Best of luck in revising history for your own devices" Oh Really? Some people think that history is simply the stories we tell about ourselves, but I have always viewed it as more than that.

The point of my survey "Man and Impact in the Americas" was to begin to establish the impact record for the Americas. No more, no less. I did it as well as I could, and quite frankly, if North American archaeologists were better at doing what they are supposed to be doing my task would have been far, far easier. Why even the major holocene start impacts were not reported until some 4 years after I finished my book. Kind of tough to deny them now, isn't it Dirk?

Incidentally, impacts also provided a time lock for Native American oral histories, which provided a lock to the archaeological record. Result: "Mississippian", "Hopewell" and "Andaste" are all in there, but with their real names, and descriptions of their lives in their own words, those of their neighbors, or those of visitors. Result: the only reliable proto-history of the first peoples east of the Mississippi River and south of the Saint Lawrence.

In 2007 after far too many messages we finally established that the specific deposits at Fairbanks which Hibben's observed were destroyed by the same hydraulic mining operation which exposed them.

Now you bring up an Alaskan coastal site. What is the weather like in Alaska on the coast? If anything was exposed, I would not expect it to survive waves, wind and ice for long.

Getting down to credentials, I was a space journalist, and you can read the major stories I broke over at Mark Wade's Encyclopedia Astronautica. Before that I coded text retrieval applications in mainframe assembler, and then did some computer security work.

Ignorant of archaeology? Not quite, Dirk.

My professor? My brother in law was an Egyptologist trained at the University of Chicago, and I lived in DC, so visiting the Smithsonian exhibits with him was great fun. I read archaeology from about age 8.

After college I played with Linear A for 7 years, and even built my own "toy". And no, I don't want to share with you who I met up with along the way then.

I excavated in Fredericksburg, but it was a minor dig in the mayor's back yard, did docent work, and assembled broken beer jugs.

I made 12 trips between the Mississippi River and East Coast for "Man and Impact in the Americas", what I called "library and cemetery" tours, and pretty much drained the UVA mayan materials, and much from the Library of Congress.

Now I am sorry that I did not cover the Southwest in my book, but then the Hopi, Navajo, and Zuni elders will say what they want to say about impacts when they want to say it.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas
(waiting for the new IG's report on Griffin's failure to respond to the
instructions of the George Brown Jr amendment, and for the USGS cores from the coastal Carolinas.)

> Ed,
 
> "For example, in 1946 he described a site at Chitna Bay in
> Alaska at which he claimed to have found 10,000-year-old
> flints. Subsequent expeditions revealed that the site simply
> did not exist. Today, faking archaeological evidence is
> known as hibbenising. 'Some think Hibben's work is all
> faked,' archaeologist Bruce Huckell said. 'Others think we
> don't have enough information to know."
>
> Alaska Mucks again were another of Hibbin`s muck work.
>
> Hibbins is also infamous for his faked data at Sandia
> Cave.
>
> Hibbin`s work is given in most introductory archaeology
> classes, Paleo-Indian and all Southwestern Archaeology
> classes as a classic way NOT to conduct archaeology.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Hibben
>
> "The primary source of the controversies was Hibben's claim
> to have found a deposit with pre-Clovis artifacts (including
> projectile points, which he termed "Sandia points") in
> Sandia Cave (in the Sandia Mountains near Albuquerque, New
> Mexico). Hibben believed the layers to be about 25,000 years
> old, much older than the Paleo-Indian cultures previously
> documented in the U.S. Southwest. The layers also included
> the bones of Pleistocene species such as camels, mastodons,
> and horses.[5] The 25,000 year age for the "Sandia Man"
> deposits was a best guess based on the strata in the cave,
> and was later called into question, in part through
> radiocarbon dating. Also, research notes by Wesley Bliss
> (who had excavated in the cave in 1936) and others indicate
> that animal burrowing led to a mixing of deposits. The
> notion of a "Sandia Man" occupation of the U.S. Southwest is
> no longer accepted by professional archaeologists, but that
> in itself is not the source of controversy. Instead, some researchers
> believe that artifacts were "salted" (fraudulently placed) in the cave
> deposits to support the notion of the "Sandia Man"
> occupation. Those who believe that fraud was committed often
> suspect Hibben of being involved in the fraud.[6] [7] [8]
> The evidence is inconclusive, however, and Hibben maintained
> his innocence in the matter until his death.
>
> In 1946, Hibben described a visit to Chinitna Bay on the
> west side of Cook Inlet in Alaska, where he claimed to find
> a projectile point matching those of the Folsom people who
> lived on the High Plains and adjacent regions 10,000 years
> ago. The claim of an Alaska Folsom-like occupation did not
> hold up, and added to the controversies surrounding his
> work."
>
> His "slander" as you call it, came from HIS peers and
> students of his time and from seeing and participating in
> fieldwork with him.
>
> While you are revising history on bad science take a
> look at Margaret Mead`s anthropology record as well.
>

> Ed.
> Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>
> --- On Tue, 8/25/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SETS: The Search for
> > Extra-terrestrial Stupidity
> > To: "drtanuki" <drtanuki at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:00 AM
> > Hi Dirk-
> >
> > I see that the slander continues. Hibben underwent
> > most vicious attack while incapacitated by a brain injury
> > suffered in World War 2. Between his pre-clovis work,
> > and his observation of the remains at Fairbanks, he got
> > creamed.
> >
> > Ed
 



      
Received on Mon 24 Aug 2009 10:33:14 PM PDT