[meteorite-list] Met List Flame Wars

From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:43:43 -0500
Message-ID: <E2EB5D6F94AF45D8ADF1B7A60AF70EF4_at_ATARIENGINE2>

Peter Davidson said:
> like the UK, I am sure that the laws of libel in the US...

    The Laws of Libel in the U.S. and the U.K. are as unlike
as any laws bearing a similar name could be. U.K. Libel
Law is a unique construction of the very concept of Libel
as it is conceived of in the U.S and much of the rest of the
world. Some would say U.K. Libel Law is an unique
perversion of the concept. All despite the fact that U.S.
and U.K. grow from the same root stock.

    However, I cannot explain why in an email sent to the
U.K. for fear of U.K. Libel Law. Neither can I state that a
U.K. chiropractor cannot cure you of leukemia by twiddling
with your vertebrae. I can't speak on that issue -- sorry.

    It was recently ruled in the U.K. that defamatory postings
on a message board (and presumably, a mailing list like this)
are slander, not libel, akin to casual conversation in a bar,
much less likely to be actionable.
http://www.urban75.org/info/libel.html

    One could conceivably defend one's self by the evidence
that many on this board were intoxicated by eating quantities
of extraterrestrial matter, for example. Worth a try. It does
sound at times like the posters are three sails to the wind.

    More of the wonders of U.K. Libel Law:

http://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/2009/warning-uk-libel-law-may-be-hazardous-your-health

http://www.thelegalweek.merseyblogs.co.uk/2008/10/blog_uk_libel_law_v_freedom_of.html\

http://www.englishpen.org/aboutenglishpen/campaigns/reformingthelibellaws/

and quickly, before the Law Lords shut down the Internet:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/aug/31/news.politicsandthemedia

    As for the appearance -- got to be careful not to libel
anybody here -- that "some of us are allowing our passions
to get in the way of our reasoning"? It will take more any
Libel Law to stop that. Just sit back and enjoy it. Order
another Martian Cocktail.


Sterling K. Webb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Davidson" <P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Met List Flame Wars


> Richard and Other
>
> Like you, I am a relative newcomer to this list. Like you in the short
> time I have been a member, I have been shocked at some of the language
> and accusations being flung around. I can already hear some list
> members
> saying, "Well! If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".
> Nevertheless, like the UK, I am sure that the laws of libel in the US
> apply to e-mail as well as other forms of written communication. I
> know
> that everyone on the list is passionate about meteorites, otherwise
> why
> are we here, but some of us are allowing our passions to get in the
> way
> of our reasoning. We are all grown-ups, so let's act like them.
>
> Peter Davidson
> Curator of Minerals
> Department of Natural Sciences
> National Museums Scotland
> National Museums Collection Centre
> 242 West Granton Road
> EDINBURGH
> EH5 1JA
> Scotland
> Tel: 00 44 131 247 4283
> E-mail: p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Kowalski
> Sent: 19 August 2009 19:25
> To: meteorite list
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Met List Flame Wars
>
> I hope that this email doesn't offend anyone. I mention two particular
> people who I won't name, but for the most part I am speaking in
> general.
>
> I've been on this list for several months now. I joined for all the
> reasons people usually join a mailing list; To make contacts with
> others
> that have similar interests to learn from these other people, and
> hopefully to eventually contribute something of substance to the
> group.
>
> For the first week or so after I joined the list, I started learning
> the
> players, and learning a bit more about meteorites. After about a week,
> someone posted a message about some material they had to offer.
> Another
> person asked what it was and whoo classified it. The first person
> answered the questions. Simple, clear and exactly as one would expect.
> Both were reasonable and courteous to the other. As a new collector
> who
> knew only a few people in the field, this interaction was exactly what
> I
> wanted to see.
>
> Since the meteorite market is so "thin" and a lot of it is based on
> "faith", faith that what is being offered is exactly what is being
> represented. It is important to me that the people I interact with,
> and
> purchase from, act professionally at all times. I have to have faith
> in
> this person. I have to trust them. This goes for the full time dealer
> as
> well as the "vest pocket" dealer who sells to improve his or her
> personal collection...
>
> I have purchased from both of these people, one of them has provided
> me
> with a large percentage of my collection purchases since then. I won't
> hesitate buying from either one...
>
> Having a good reputation is important to me. Being professional is
> too.
>
> What shocked me, as a new member was how many other people jumped in,
> making wild accusations, going off on tangents, much of which was not
> even remotely related to the original post, the question, or the
> reply.
> It was an eye opening event for me. A number of people who sell lost
> any
> chance to get my business.
>
> Since then there have been multiple flare ups, which has further
> reduced
> the pool of sellers I will do business with. Those I have lost faith
> in;
> Those who I can't trust.
>
> I wonder how many people lurk on this list and pay close attention to
> who acts like a professional at all times and who does not. I have no
> doubt there are others like me who will not do business with anyone
> who
> does not present a professional demeanor most or all of the time. (We
> all have our moments)
>
> Of course people who don't sell don't really care about this, but that
> shouldn't be an excuse. The Golden Rule should apply...
>
> Some of the people on this list are also on the list I have run for
> over
> a decade, the Minor Planet Mailing List. That list has over 1200
> subscribers and has a great mix of both professional and amateur
> astronomers with the common interest in asteroids and comets. I run
> the
> list with a very light hand. Scientific discussion and debate are
> welcome and encouraged, but one of the things that will get you
> moderated or banned is personal attacks.
>
> One of the worst things that can happen to any mailing list is
> unbridled
> flames wars. I recently read here that this list was filled with
> scientists in the field of meteoritics, but now most have gone.
> Apparently previous flames caused them to leave. Thats a sad comment.
>
> I am in no way telling this list's owner how to run the list, but we
> have found that this policy works extremely well on MPML.
>
> Those who do make personal attacks rarely contribute anything of
> substance to the list, so losing them is not much of a loss...
>
> Please keep the great information coming. It is what makes being a
> member of this list worth while.
>
> Please reconsider your posts before hitting the send button if there
> is
> no useful information in your message...
>
> Sorry for the length of this email.
> Thanks for letting me comment.
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
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Received on Thu 20 Aug 2009 05:43:43 PM PDT