[meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding prospecting, hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 08:43:16 -0500
Message-ID: <e51421550904050643v48e6fd99s2a3d15d9df727bdd_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael and list -

I have to agree with you on Meteor Crater not being accessible for
prospecting. A person or business should not be able to own a major
geological feature and deny access and/or use rights to everyone else.
 It's wrong on a deep level. I guess someone will be purchasing the
Mississippi River next and telling the rest of us to get our boats out
of it. ;)

At the same time, I don't know if governmental ownership is the right
answer either. Give a government a solid iron ball, and they'll find
a way to pollute it, mismanage it, or disrespect it. It's a pity
that there is no common sense/respect/decency between human beings
regarding the wonders of nature. It's a shame that some careless
hunters dug big holes in the desert and left them behind for cattle to
break legs in. It's a shame that some wealthy industrialist "bought"
a geological feature. It's a shame that people poach, trespass, and
deceive. However, it makes little sense to deny prospecting all
across the board because some lunkhead couldn't fill his holes when he
was done. "Leave no traces" is my ethic when it comes to hiking,
boondocking, camping, and all other interaction with nature - come and
go like the wind. And it's a shame that others can't follow that
ethic and have ruined it for many of us who would like to access/use
natural areas responsibly.

Well, I can rant and rail against it, but there is no fighting it.
The land around the crater for as far as the eye can see is
off-limits, as Ted Bunch said in his reply. It's either "Crater
People Land" or it's "Bar T Bar Ranch Land" (or some such) or it's
Arizona State Trust land, so the argument for or against it's use is a
moot one. Anyone can thumb their nose at the absurdity of it all, but
the risk is jail time, a fine, and a criminal record. I guess I could
whine about how unfair it is, but I should get in line behind the
indigenous peoples who owned that land for thousands of years before
caucasoid conquerors came and took possession by force. If I was
American Indian, my feelings would be more valid - as a descendent of
the conquerors, I have little room to complain I guess. (although the
part of me that is Cherokee indian is mildly outraged) ;)

"...and the sign said anybody caught trespassing will be arrested on sight
So I jumped on the fence and yelled at the crater cops, Hey! what
gives you the right
To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in
If God was here, he'd tell you to your face, man you're some kinda sinner...."

[/pontificate] [/high horse]

Momma didn't raise a fool and I've never seen the inside of a jail or
the wrong side of a judge, and I want to keep it that way. So, I'll
swallow my feelings and steer clear of the crater. I'll go visit like
every other tourist, stay within the permitted areas, park where I am
supposed to, snap some photos, let out a sigh, and then leave.

So, of the areas I asked about, we have this -

1) Meteor Crater - NO prospecting, period.
2) Gold Basin - some areas (near the lake) are off-limits legally, but
the remainder is legal?
3) Nevada tends to be more lenient than Arizona?
4) BLM areas - enforcement or interpretation of the rules varies
according to what individual is administrator of that area?
5) Stay the heck out of Georgia. (cue the banjos)

So, what about - Franconia, Holbrook, and other well-known SW-US strewnfields?

And what about Texas? Does the recent West episode give the Texans
more reason to let hunters do their thing (with permission) .... ?
Are the old finds like Travis, Forestburg, Tulia, (and dozens of
others) all searched out?

Best regards, happy huntings and clear skies,

MikeG

PS - I have 3 auctions ending tonight - Lunar and Martian meteorite
display, Iron micromount assortment, and "exotic" micromount
assortment (Tata, Norton, Brahin, etc). 2 auctions are still under
$3.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle


On 4/3/09, Michael Bross <element33 at peconic.net> wrote:
> Hello MikeG and List
>
> This is a great idea. When looking at Iridium measuring/testing (haha :)) I
> stumbled upon a
> French metal detector website which summarized well enough laws and
> regulations
> pertaining to "hunting" on private or public land in France: national,
> regional etc...
>
> We know that laws can be "gray" to some extent, but still it is a good
> start.
>
> PS: this should be another thread, but how come a place like the Canyon
> Diablo
> Meteor Crater site is a private enterprise ?!
> I know we talk about USA but still... such a place should be State or
> Federal property, no ?!
> or did I not understand properly your post Mike ?
>
> Good evening everyone
>
> Michael B, France
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:09 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
> prospecting,hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
>
>
>> Hi Listees!
>>
>> I was reading with great interest the recent list posts about state
>> laws in Arizona and Colorado regarding hunting for meteorites, bird
>> watching, etc. I don't want some humorless officer with a crewcut and
>> a sharp hat threatening me with jail for stargazing or boondocking, so
>> I'd like to suggest a discussion thread dedicated solely to the laws,
>> and not the ethics, of hunting meteorites on state and federally-owned
>> land.
>>
>> I have a couple of observations and questions I'd like to share with
>> the group and someone please correct me if I am wrong about anything
>> here -
>>
>> I read that one must have a special state license or pass to use
>> certain state lands in Arizona and Colorado - I am assuming this does
>> not apply to pay-for-access areas like State Parks where tourists pay
>> an entry fee and they are allowed to birdwatch and hike within the
>> boundaries of the park. Also, what about the federal land passes that
>> are available? If I am in a National Park in Arizona (federal land)
>> and I have a valid federal land pass, does this mean an Arizona state
>> officer can't hassle me on that federal land? I realize having such a
>> pass does not entitle me to access or use state-owned lands, but am I
>> correct in my assumption that the federal pass takes precedence over
>> the state pass on federally-administered lands?
>>
>> Also, I am assuming that the possession of a state or a federal
>> land-use permit does not grant any privileges in regards to gathering,
>> harvesting, prospecting, or removing natural materials - including
>> fossils, minerals, gold, meteorites, etc. I have researched the
>> federal land use permits online and it
>> 's pretty clear that they only grant *access* to certain areas and use
>> of certain specific facilities instead of paying a gate fee or entry
>> fee. It clearly states that no other rights or privileges are granted
>> other than the few specifically mentioned in the terms of the
>> pass/permit.
>>
>> In Florida, where I lived for many years, one can acquire a "fossil
>> permit" from the State which grants certain prospecting and removal
>> rights on certain State-owned lands in Florida. It only covers
>> fossils, but it's better than a kick in the teeth. Are there any
>> other states that have similar permits available, and are these
>> permits available to non-residents?
>>
>> I'd like to know, briefly, what risks are involved with prospecting
>> meteorites in the following well-known strewnfields :
>>
>> Gold Basin, Franconia, Holbrook, Glorieta, the Mojave area?
>>
>> It is well-known that the area around Meteor Crater (Canyon Diablo) is
>> off-limits to meteorite prospectors - it is verboten. But, are there
>> ANY areas in the vicinity of the crater where it is possible to
>> legally prospect for meteorites, assuming the proper permits are in
>> order? What about smaller private land owners - is any of the land
>> owned by someone who will grant permission to prospect, or is every
>> square inch of land around the Crater off-limits completely? I find
>> it hard to imagine that an impact event of that size didn't throw some
>> meteorites over and beyond the reach of "Meteor Crater Inc, LLC and
>> it's Subsidiaries" legal team. Is there no-way a law-abiding citizen
>> can go find a Diablo meteorite, or do I just need to get that out of
>> my head and forget about it?
>>
>> What about Odessa Texas? Can one legally find meteorites there on
>> public or private lands? Or is it another Canyon Diablo type of
>> situation around the Odessa Crater?
>>
>> Brenham Kansas? Off-limits? Will the farmers look at you cross-ways
>> and rack back the slide on their 10-gauge scattergun when you drive
>> slowly down the road gazing longingly at the rolling fields that
>> conceal pallasitic joy? Does any of the Brenham strewnfield extend
>> onto public lands?
>>
>> Has anyone ever taken a shot in the dark and looked around Peekskill
>> for the lost stones? There out there oxidizing away somewhere in the
>> woods or in a lake.
>>
>> What about the other meteorite-laden areas of Texas? Using the NASA
>> WordlWind plugin for the Met Soc database, it's easy to see that some
>> areas of Texas are peppered with old finds. Do any of these areas
>> still produce specimens, and which ones can be legally prospected (if
>> any)? Dawn, Forestburg, Travis, Tulia, etc, etc, etc. ?
>>
>> I ask this endless stream of questions because very soon I will be
>> joining the hunt and I'd like to spend some time combing these old
>> strewnfields for finds - but I want to stay on the right side of the
>> law. I don't want a trespassing charge and I don't want to go through
>> what Mike and Sonny went through, if I can help it. When I travel to
>> an area, I want to be very cognizant and respectful of not only the
>> local laws, but the local traditions and culture. I don't want to
>> inadvertently find myself in a sticky situation with some Wyatt
>> Earp-wannabe sheriff or a trigger-happy landowner with dubious
>> boundaries. Is all of this just par for the course in meteorite
>> prospecting?
>>
>> Finally, one last question for the group, I have been to TreasureNet
>> and some other places online looking for information regarding the
>> legality of using metal detectors on public land in the various US
>> states. I couldn't find a simple complete list of the applicable laws
>> in the various states and there seems to be a wide variation between
>> the states. Does anyone have a weblink they can share that shows a
>> complete list or nationwide summary of the laws?
>>
>> Are these the kinds of questions that wily veteran hunters hate to
>> hear newbies ask because it means increased competition for finds in
>> the long run? ;)
>>
>> Best regards, clear skies, and happy huntings,
>>
>> MikeG

.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................
Received on Sun 05 Apr 2009 09:43:16 AM PDT