[meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regardingprospecting, hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.

From: R N Hartman <rhartman04_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 19:24:37 -0700
Message-ID: <002f01c9b595$aace6f60$6401a8c0_at_DBZC5NB1>

Hello Mike, to respond to yor post: <<PS: this should be another thread,
but how come a place like the Canyon
> Diablo
> Meteor Crater site is a private enterprise ?!
> I know we talk about USA but still... such a place should be State or
> Federal property, no ?!
> or did I not understand properly your post Mike ?>>

I have been told: "Meteor Crater" Arizona is private land because in the
eartly 20th century Arizona was the wild west and the gvt. allowed people to
stake mining claims. Barringer applied for 4 claims, centered on the crater
floor where he thought he could mine a large iron meteorite. These claims
were essentially free to miners. Of course, the land came with the claim.
The crtaer land is only one section ( a square one mile on a side). The
land around is property of the Bar-B-Bar ranch, and eventially Barringer
(Meteor Crater Enterprises) and the ranch merged into a legal entity. In
fact, while the ranch land is many many square miles, they only own every
alternate square (checker board pattern) and the other 50% is owned by the
state of Arizona; that portion is then leased to the ranch for GRAZING
RIGHTS ONLY but NOT MINERAL RIGHTS. (I went through the state reconds at
the land office in Phoenix myself and talked to the person in charge.) The
whole thing is also part of a recreational overlay for hunters, etc., so
they cannot prohibit you from trespassing. If you want to hunt for fossils
you are free to do so (last I heard). However, if the staff at meteor
Crater catch someone hunting meteorites they can and probably will call the
sheriff and do their best to give you a bad time. The state is the only
entity that can legally do something about hunting meteorites on the state
parcels, and they will as they and the Crater people have a personal
relationship. The catch is that legally you need to apply for a permit to
hunt meteorites in Arizona (legally). And the state will not process a
permit for hunting in the proximity of the crater. One of the reasons that
started their policy why they don't want meteorite collecting on their land
is that collectors were digging holes and not filling them in. They were
making a mess of the grazing land and risking that cattle could fall into a
hole at night and break a leg. Makes sense! That was the thinking, I have
heard, back in the good old days when only a few hunters would come around.
Now its a parade whenever a new area is found and its tearing up the desert,
dry lakes and everywhere else!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bross" <element33 at peconic.net>
To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>;
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws
regardingprospecting, hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.


> Hello MikeG and List
>
> This is a great idea. When looking at Iridium measuring/testing (haha :))
> I stumbled upon a
> French metal detector website which summarized well enough laws and
> regulations
> pertaining to "hunting" on private or public land in France: national,
> regional etc...
>
> We know that laws can be "gray" to some extent, but still it is a good
> start.
>
> PS: this should be another thread, but how come a place like the Canyon
> Diablo
> Meteor Crater site is a private enterprise ?!
> I know we talk about USA but still... such a place should be State or
> Federal property, no ?!
> or did I not understand properly your post Mike ?
>
> Good evening everyone
>
> Michael B, France
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:09 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
> prospecting,hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
>
>
>> Hi Listees!
>>
>> I was reading with great interest the recent list posts about state
>> laws in Arizona and Colorado regarding hunting for meteorites, bird
>> watching, etc. I don't want some humorless officer with a crewcut and
>> a sharp hat threatening me with jail for stargazing or boondocking, so
>> I'd like to suggest a discussion thread dedicated solely to the laws,
>> and not the ethics, of hunting meteorites on state and federally-owned
>> land.
>>
>> I have a couple of observations and questions I'd like to share with
>> the group and someone please correct me if I am wrong about anything
>> here -
>>
>> I read that one must have a special state license or pass to use
>> certain state lands in Arizona and Colorado - I am assuming this does
>> not apply to pay-for-access areas like State Parks where tourists pay
>> an entry fee and they are allowed to birdwatch and hike within the
>> boundaries of the park. Also, what about the federal land passes that
>> are available? If I am in a National Park in Arizona (federal land)
>> and I have a valid federal land pass, does this mean an Arizona state
>> officer can't hassle me on that federal land? I realize having such a
>> pass does not entitle me to access or use state-owned lands, but am I
>> correct in my assumption that the federal pass takes precedence over
>> the state pass on federally-administered lands?
>>
>> Also, I am assuming that the possession of a state or a federal
>> land-use permit does not grant any privileges in regards to gathering,
>> harvesting, prospecting, or removing natural materials - including
>> fossils, minerals, gold, meteorites, etc. I have researched the
>> federal land use permits online and it
>> 's pretty clear that they only grant *access* to certain areas and use
>> of certain specific facilities instead of paying a gate fee or entry
>> fee. It clearly states that no other rights or privileges are granted
>> other than the few specifically mentioned in the terms of the
>> pass/permit.
>>
>> In Florida, where I lived for many years, one can acquire a "fossil
>> permit" from the State which grants certain prospecting and removal
>> rights on certain State-owned lands in Florida. It only covers
>> fossils, but it's better than a kick in the teeth. Are there any
>> other states that have similar permits available, and are these
>> permits available to non-residents?
>>
>> I'd like to know, briefly, what risks are involved with prospecting
>> meteorites in the following well-known strewnfields :
>>
>> Gold Basin, Franconia, Holbrook, Glorieta, the Mojave area?
>>
>> It is well-known that the area around Meteor Crater (Canyon Diablo) is
>> off-limits to meteorite prospectors - it is verboten. But, are there
>> ANY areas in the vicinity of the crater where it is possible to
>> legally prospect for meteorites, assuming the proper permits are in
>> order? What about smaller private land owners - is any of the land
>> owned by someone who will grant permission to prospect, or is every
>> square inch of land around the Crater off-limits completely? I find
>> it hard to imagine that an impact event of that size didn't throw some
>> meteorites over and beyond the reach of "Meteor Crater Inc, LLC and
>> it's Subsidiaries" legal team. Is there no-way a law-abiding citizen
>> can go find a Diablo meteorite, or do I just need to get that out of
>> my head and forget about it?
>>
>> What about Odessa Texas? Can one legally find meteorites there on
>> public or private lands? Or is it another Canyon Diablo type of
>> situation around the Odessa Crater?
>>
>> Brenham Kansas? Off-limits? Will the farmers look at you cross-ways
>> and rack back the slide on their 10-gauge scattergun when you drive
>> slowly down the road gazing longingly at the rolling fields that
>> conceal pallasitic joy? Does any of the Brenham strewnfield extend
>> onto public lands?
>>
>> Has anyone ever taken a shot in the dark and looked around Peekskill
>> for the lost stones? There out there oxidizing away somewhere in the
>> woods or in a lake.
>>
>> What about the other meteorite-laden areas of Texas? Using the NASA
>> WordlWind plugin for the Met Soc database, it's easy to see that some
>> areas of Texas are peppered with old finds. Do any of these areas
>> still produce specimens, and which ones can be legally prospected (if
>> any)? Dawn, Forestburg, Travis, Tulia, etc, etc, etc. ?
>>
>> I ask this endless stream of questions because very soon I will be
>> joining the hunt and I'd like to spend some time combing these old
>> strewnfields for finds - but I want to stay on the right side of the
>> law. I don't want a trespassing charge and I don't want to go through
>> what Mike and Sonny went through, if I can help it. When I travel to
>> an area, I want to be very cognizant and respectful of not only the
>> local laws, but the local traditions and culture. I don't want to
>> inadvertently find myself in a sticky situation with some Wyatt
>> Earp-wannabe sheriff or a trigger-happy landowner with dubious
>> boundaries. Is all of this just par for the course in meteorite
>> prospecting?
>>
>> Finally, one last question for the group, I have been to TreasureNet
>> and some other places online looking for information regarding the
>> legality of using metal detectors on public land in the various US
>> states. I couldn't find a simple complete list of the applicable laws
>> in the various states and there seems to be a wide variation between
>> the states. Does anyone have a weblink they can share that shows a
>> complete list or nationwide summary of the laws?
>>
>> Are these the kinds of questions that wily veteran hunters hate to
>> hear newbies ask because it means increased competition for finds in
>> the long run? ;)
>>
>> Best regards, clear skies, and happy huntings,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
>> ..........................................................
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Received on Sat 04 Apr 2009 10:24:37 PM PDT