[meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794

From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:39:10 -0700
Message-ID: <COL119-W69DD36B90775DD14E15C2DA4880_at_phx.gbl>

I know you are witty, we all do but don't bunny hop
around my points by playing word games.
This isn't the bar scene from Goodwill Hunting.
I don't want to argue with someone I respect.
I don't need to tell Bill to be quiet because you already did.
No one wants to block Steve, they just want him to slow down.
And what I meant was you, Jason, where wrong for telling someone not
to stand up for what they believe in. I did NOT mean standing up
for what you believe in is wrong.
With that said I apologize for offending you if I did...
Now lets get one with the Meteoritics...
Love, Piece, and Afro Grease and all that mushy stuff.
[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:23:48 -0700
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>
> So I'm wrong for telling someone - who is telling someone else to be
> quiet - to be quiet.
> That's what you said.
> If you'd wanted to make sense, you should have condemned Bill all the
> more, for telling someone who was just speaking their mind to shut up
> - otherwise you're just being irrational.
>
> You might as well call police guilty for trying to protect us ordinary
> people from the violence of others. If they shoot a criminal who has
> their gun trained on an innocent person, is it wrong?
> I'm not the police, or any sort of authority on the list - that's most
> definitely not the point of my post.
> But, in the analogy, you're shooting me for shooting the criminal.
>
> It doesn't make sense.
> I get what you were trying to say.
> It's wrong.
>
> Jason
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>
>> you know what I meant Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>
>>> Erik,
>>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
>>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
>>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
>>> in - doing that is wrong.
>>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
>>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
>>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
>>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
>>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
>>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
>>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
>>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
>>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
>>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
>>> believes in.'
>>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
>>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
>>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
>>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
>>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
>>> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
>>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
>>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
>>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
>>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
>>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>>>
>>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>>>
>>>> [Erik]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>>>> time's the charm, right?
>>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>>>> that function.
>>>>>
>>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>>>> actually find.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>>>> change that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
>>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>>>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
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>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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Received on Thu 02 Apr 2009 03:39:10 AM PDT