[meteorite-list] Space junk - marine life - shame on NASA

From: mexicodoug at aim.com <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:11:54 -0500
Message-ID: <8CB0C185065B630-1630-2102_at_WEBMAIL-MY17.sysops.aol.com>

No problem Greg C. Ironically, I just posted based on the posts
(press!) your reply got on the list, and of course qualified it by
calling it "possible" so as to report rather than inject my opinion.
Had not yet seen your recent clarification in the flurry of responses.

NASA has done some shameful things, but if one points one specific out
in a judgemental way, we should be careful to be specific and check our
own sources and have a defensible argument. Thankfully this was not
one of NASA's blunders. In addition, if it is ISS related, NASA is not
alone, but rather part of an international team of accomplices and
taxpayers ;)

After being on the list longer, it seems friendly advice not to shame
anyone, including NASA, unless you're enjoying a heated exchange, the
list never fails, in which case it is nice to have reasonable facts to
back up claims, rather than just tough talk (not referring to you at
all with this). And the longer you are here the harder it will be for
anyone to peel off your own heat-shield tiles :)

Another ironic thing about the list, is ocassionally we lose new
members who attempt to start their own forum after they participate in
the heated exchanges and decide they can do a better job elsewhere on
the www. They then point to heated exchanges on the list and try to
draw list members by saying they moderate on their sites and the list
is a mess. Some dealers think this draws business away from them,
others are frustrated with all the places they must go for information.
  I truly hope you enjoy this list and contribute for our benefit, and
do not feel that way. This list is kinda fun in that respect, it is
peer reviewed by the best of the best - and that is the best it gets
for amateurs. Welcome to the list, and please be sure to encourage all
the meteorite people you know to use this great resource as a first
stop for their meteorite interests.

Best wishes
Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 3:28 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk - marine life - shame on NASA



I will state again, from the reports I read, it was supposed to pose a
serious
health risk to anyone who would have come into contact with it had
there been a
land impact... that said, I assumed that the same would be for marine
life.
I felt that if that was the case, it was very reckless of NASA to
simply toss it
out to fall to earth. Again, I am new to this and do not understand all
the
things involved.
All reports I read stated that several pieces would survive re entry
and some
would be up to 40-50 lbs...
I may not have fully understood the issue, but I do feel some comments
directed
to me were very insulting.
I have stated before I am newer to this and do not understand
everything
involved. while several of you have been polite and helpful, I am left
feeling
that certain ones who responded need to be more considerate of people
who are
new to this and still learning.
Its not as if I publicly insulted anyone here and for some of the
comments I
have recieved I feel are totally uncalled for.

I do understand the safety issues involved with returning it to earth,
and the
costs... none of which was explained in the news reports... that is why
I felt
NASA was reckless and should be held liable - I was not properly
informed and
took the reports at face value.






--- On Mon, 11/3/08, mexicodoug at aim.com <mexicodoug at aim.com> wrote:

> From: mexicodoug at aim.com <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk - marine life - shame on NASA
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 4:11 PM
> Hi Chris, Listees,
>
> It isn't a shade of "illegal dumping" at
> issue as far as I can tell.
>
> The possibly crass accusations that stated this thread
> might consider
> that transporting the old tank in a Space Shuttle back to
> earth would
> present a far greater danger to occupants and American
> residents in the
> landing path across the USA upon reentry rather than
> uncontrolled
> incineration it was given. If you don't believe that,
> why don't you
> volunteer for a return flight with that oversized ammonia
> tank strapped
> in next to you in the belly of the Shuttle as the 30 year
> old vehicle
> starts shaking like hell in a controlled fall your life
> depends upon in
> reentry. Even Iron Man might get a cold sweat on that one.
>
> There was no safer way, unless you wanted to build a
> booster for it and
> blast it off from a mobile launch platform in low earth
> orbit into the
> Sun :). Is this a sensible?
>
> Best wishes and great health,
> Doug
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Peterson <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 1:52 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk - marine life -
> shame on NASA
>
>
> There is established international law dealing with legal
> liability for
> damage or injury caused by space debris reaching the
> ground. All space
> missions (in the U.S., at least) consider the likelihood of
> material
> surviving reentry. It's a question of statistics, and
> the chance of
> damage is almost always extremely small. In rare cases
> where something
> very large is being returned, it is usual for the object to
> be scuttled
> under controlled circumstances, to ensure reentry over the
> ocean. This
> refrigeration unit did not require a semi-controlled
> reentry because it
> was very unlikely enough material would survive to the
> ground to
> matter, regardless of where the decay occurred.?
> ?
> Of course, if an object should land on a school, it's
> easy to say how
> much cheaper it would have been to return it. But that
> logic only
> applies if you return everything, and that would be far,
> far more
> expensive than the cost of a single object hitting a
> school. In this
> case, given the size of debris remaining (if any), it's
> likely that
> something hitting a roof would just knock off some shingles
> and slide
> down.?
> ?
> I'll bet your risk is much greater from being hit by
> something falling
> off an airplane than being hit by something reentering from
> space. And
> neither risk is high enough to spend much time worrying
> about!?
> ?
> Chris?
> ?
> *****************************************?
> Chris L Peterson?
> Cloudbait Observatory?
> http://www.cloudbait.com?
> ?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg
> Catterton"
> <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>?
> To: "Chris Peterson"
> <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>?
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>?
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:30 PM?
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk - marine life -
> shame on NASA?
> ?
> >?
> > It is the first thing I was aware of, until reading
> more about it.?
> > I know what ifs are really meaningless, however... if
> it had landed
> on a > school full of kids, Im sure the cost of
> returning to earth
> would have > been very cheap compared to the loss of
> life.?
> > If it had impacted on a house or other private
> property, would NASA
> have > been liable??
> >?
> > The replies about this have been really good and
> informative, Thanks
> to > all for your input.?
> >?
> > Greg?
> ?
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Received on Mon 03 Nov 2008 05:11:54 PM PST