[meteorite-list] Orientation, the 1000th re-hash

From: Walter Branch <waltbranch_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:11:13 -0500
Message-ID: <005301c87e1a$c13c1990$6601a8c0_at_DrCollman>

>The important part of that photo was the
>look on that kids face! He was clearly thrilled at

Yes, Mike. You are correct. That was the whole point of the
photo.

Now, about those specks ......... :-)

-Walter Branch

-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Farmer" <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>
To: <dave at fallingrocks.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orientation, the 1000th re-hash


> Dave, no problem, I think the attack on you was not
> justified, I know that the photo did not show any hint
> of orientation, and perhaps more photos would have
> been good but a request for more photos or explanation
> would have been better. I got a call from Morocco
> today at 5 am about a large oriented meteorite, I
> yawned and told them to email me photos, oriented and
> morrocan-oriented are two very different things. They
> now describe everything as oriented. I applaud your
> outreach work, I wish I had more time to do some of
> those things. The important part of that photo was the
> look on that kids face! He was clearly thrilled at
> holding a huge meteorite. I never saw a meteorite when
> I was a kid.
> Michael Farmer
> --- Dave Gheesling <dave at fallingrocks.com> wrote:
>
>> Mike and List,
>> Mike, thanks for getting this debate -- which
>> emerged for all of the wrong
>> reasons -- onto some quality ground. There is
>> absolutely no doubt that the
>> term "oriented" is abused and that this is a
>> problem. It's great to have
>> watch dogs out there, but rabid and presumptive dogs
>> are not much help. I'd
>> be curious to hear what you think about the piece in
>> question when you see
>> the images I sent you off line (those on my site
>> were taken quickly and with
>> bad lighting, as it's a pain to move that piece
>> around). There are
>> certainly degrees of orientation, but -- and this is
>> important -- a few
>> seconds of oriented flight is modifying a
>> pre-existing shape (and these are
>> obviously not all consistent, thus Lafayette is not
>> always the result). Had
>> I known in advance that this would be such a
>> sensitive matter, I'd have
>> either changed the caption (again, the photo had
>> little at all to do with
>> the stone itself) or included other images to show
>> orientation. Have a
>> great day, everybody...
>> Dave
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
>> On Behalf Of Michael
>> Farmer
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:27 AM
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Orientation, the 1000th
>> re-hash
>>
>> Come on people, this has been a pet peeve of mine
>> for
>> many years. I go on eBay, or I see the Rocks from
>> Space photos all the time, with meteorites claimed
>> to
>> be oriented. Half of these people would not know
>> what
>> oriented was if it fell an embedded in their heads!
>> Dave's stone is nice, not highly oriented, but
>> oriented with the photos on his website. The photo
>> in
>> Rocks from Space showed nothing to suggest
>> orientation.
>>
>>
>> So, let's see some examples on eBay right now!
>> A fine flight-oriented Sikhote-Alin that belongs to
>> me, you can clearly see the hundreds of flow lines
>> emanating from the bullet-nose, flowing back, all in
>> the same direction, which proves the direction of
>> flight to all but the dimmest of collectors. Notice
>> how I take the time and pay for the extra photos?
>> This
>> shows the attributes I want to show on the stone.
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140211035108
>>
>>
>>
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Oriented-Sikhote-Alin-METEORITE-with-Rollover-Line_W0QQi
>> temZ180217699381
>> Take this one for example, small rollover rim, but
>> not
>> the slightest hint of orientation, NOT ORIENTED.
>>
>> Here is an oriented Gao stone, note the nice cone
>> shape, and the massive rollover lip and bubbles on
>> the
>> back to prove it! Lipping alone does not make
>> orientation. I have see blocky meteorites with a lip
>> on one side.
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350030529345
>>
>> And then there is this one, not the slightest hint
>> of
>> orientation, just a typical rounded complete Gao
>> stone.
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIENTED-Gao-Guenie-Meteorite-Burkina-Faso-3-6-Grams_W0Q
>> QitemZ200203882988
>>
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/UNCLASSIFIED-Meteorite-Oriented-Individual-84-40g_W0QQit
>> emZ120214504213
>> Here is another one, old chondrite, just becuase it
>> is
>> rounded, does not make it in any way oriented!
>> Please
>> people, this is pitiful.
>>
>> If you are selling a meteorite, you have the duty to
>> properly photograph it to present the stone as it
>> is.
>> Saying it is oriented, and then being too cheap to
>> pay
>> for multiple photographs shows that you do not care
>> about the piece, do not care about your product, and
>> are likely lying about the orientation part.
>> Every time I sell an oriented meteorite on ebay, you
>> will get 6-15 photos showing all sides, aspects,
>> flow
>> lines, lipping, nosecone etc.
>> Buyer beware, if the seller does not show you these
>> things, then do you really think you are going to
>> get
>> them?
>> Michael Farmer
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Received on Tue 04 Mar 2008 12:11:13 PM PST