[meteorite-list] Orientation, the 1000th re-hash

From: Dave Gheesling <dave_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:41:53 -0500
Message-ID: <17755DEB52ED4130BA5FA850D7B0895E_at_meteorroom>

Mike and List,
Mike, thanks for getting this debate -- which emerged for all of the wrong
reasons -- onto some quality ground. There is absolutely no doubt that the
term "oriented" is abused and that this is a problem. It's great to have
watch dogs out there, but rabid and presumptive dogs are not much help. I'd
be curious to hear what you think about the piece in question when you see
the images I sent you off line (those on my site were taken quickly and with
bad lighting, as it's a pain to move that piece around). There are
certainly degrees of orientation, but -- and this is important -- a few
seconds of oriented flight is modifying a pre-existing shape (and these are
obviously not all consistent, thus Lafayette is not always the result). Had
I known in advance that this would be such a sensitive matter, I'd have
either changed the caption (again, the photo had little at all to do with
the stone itself) or included other images to show orientation. Have a
great day, everybody...
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Farmer
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:27 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orientation, the 1000th re-hash

Come on people, this has been a pet peeve of mine for
many years. I go on eBay, or I see the Rocks from
Space photos all the time, with meteorites claimed to
be oriented. Half of these people would not know what
oriented was if it fell an embedded in their heads!
Dave's stone is nice, not highly oriented, but
oriented with the photos on his website. The photo in
Rocks from Space showed nothing to suggest
orientation.


So, let's see some examples on eBay right now!
A fine flight-oriented Sikhote-Alin that belongs to
me, you can clearly see the hundreds of flow lines
emanating from the bullet-nose, flowing back, all in
the same direction, which proves the direction of
flight to all but the dimmest of collectors. Notice
how I take the time and pay for the extra photos? This
shows the attributes I want to show on the stone.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140211035108



http://cgi.ebay.com/Oriented-Sikhote-Alin-METEORITE-with-Rollover-Line_W0QQi
temZ180217699381
Take this one for example, small rollover rim, but not
the slightest hint of orientation, NOT ORIENTED.

Here is an oriented Gao stone, note the nice cone
shape, and the massive rollover lip and bubbles on the
back to prove it! Lipping alone does not make
orientation. I have see blocky meteorites with a lip
on one side.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350030529345

And then there is this one, not the slightest hint of
orientation, just a typical rounded complete Gao
stone.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIENTED-Gao-Guenie-Meteorite-Burkina-Faso-3-6-Grams_W0Q
QitemZ200203882988

http://cgi.ebay.com/UNCLASSIFIED-Meteorite-Oriented-Individual-84-40g_W0QQit
emZ120214504213
Here is another one, old chondrite, just becuase it is
rounded, does not make it in any way oriented! Please
people, this is pitiful.

If you are selling a meteorite, you have the duty to
properly photograph it to present the stone as it is.
Saying it is oriented, and then being too cheap to pay
for multiple photographs shows that you do not care
about the piece, do not care about your product, and
are likely lying about the orientation part.
Every time I sell an oriented meteorite on ebay, you
will get 6-15 photos showing all sides, aspects, flow
lines, lipping, nosecone etc.
Buyer beware, if the seller does not show you these
things, then do you really think you are going to get
them?
Michael Farmer
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Received on Tue 04 Mar 2008 11:41:53 AM PST