[meteorite-list] Fw: Carancas crater
From: Jerry <grf2_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:10:41 -0500 Message-ID: <E66BA60FD26F44D595EDCB92A8A4AC37_at_Notebook> I'm forwarding this since it didn't show up the first time. Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry" <grf2 at verizon.net> To: "Ted Bunch" <tbear1 at cableone.net>; <mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com>; "Michael Farmer" <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; "Adam" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas crater > Ted and List, > I'm happy to see you weigh in on this. Maybe this will stop the quibbling. > I sense an odor of sour grapes in this thread anyhow. > If one [or more] of our "team" managed to get there and survey the site, > survive angry protestations, bring back a quantity for us to share, why > quibble over terminology. > Subsequent investigations corroborate earlier assessments and now this > meteorite is being recognized for its historic import. > HYPERVELOCITY is the watch word anyway. That don't happen every day[at > least witnessed!] > Jerry Flaherty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted Bunch" <tbear1 at cableone.net> > To: <mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com>; "Michael Farmer" <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>; > <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; "Adam Hupe" > <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; "Adam" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:07 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas crater > > >>I am not sure why there is an argument about whether or not Carancas is an >> impact crater. Of course it is! In scientific terminology, impact pit is >> not >> acceptable. Let's review the facts: >> >> 1) The Carancas crater was produced by a hypervelocity impactor that >> excavated a deep hole and formed a raised rim of target materials >> (unconsolidated clastic debris). >> 2) Produced ejecta rays out 350 m from the crater >> 3) The event had sufficient shock energy to cause classic shock features >> in >> target quartz. >> 4) There is no size limitation for use of the term "crater" as long as >> the >> feature fits the accepted scientific constraints, e. g., formed by >> hypervelocity impact. LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility) flew in >> space >> for 5.5 years and studies of the facility skin showed thousands of >> craters >> as small as a few microns. Similar tiny craters have been found all over >> space shuttle vehicles. Apollo glassy spherules and rock samples show >> tiny >> impact craters as do several meteorite surfaces. In all of these cases, >> scientific reports used the term "crater". >> >> Ted Bunch >> >> (an innocent bystander with 40 + years of professional experience in >> impact >> cratering) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2/28/08 11:01 AM, "mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com" >> <mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com> >> wrote: >> >>> All: >>> See the site (http://unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase). >>> On the first page you will find the criteria for inclusion within this >>> database (which is the most comprehensive and well-researched list on >>> the >>> planet). Sikhote-Alin is listed, Carancas is not (yet?). Also note >>> Wabar and >>> Haviland, both of which are termed "craters" and do fall within Adam's >>> range >>> of 5-20 m. >>> >>> The term impact "pit" is not listed in the Glossary of Geology (Jackson, >>> 1997, >>> 4th ed.), and is thus likely a loosely-used definition. Impact crater >>> is >>> listed in the Glossary and is defined as "a generally circular crater >>> formed >>> either by impact of a projectile on a planetary surface or by an >>> experimental >>> hypervelocity impact of a projectile into solid matter..." >>> >>> I would hedge a bet that Carancas will be considered an impact crater. >>> >>> Matt >>> ---------------------- >>> Matt Morgan >>> Mile High Meteorites >>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>> P.O. Box 151293 >>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com> >>> >>> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:40:39 >>> To:Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>,Adam >>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas crater >>> >>> >>> I did not realize that the website you listed was the >>> definitive and final place which determines craters vs >>> pits. It seems that some of the top scientists in the >>> world think that it is a crater, perhaps you should >>> enlighten them. >>> Carancas is a crater, and I am not sure:), but I do >>> believe that the impact of a meteorite created it, >>> thus, I am still confused, but would that not tend to >>> suggest that it is meteoritic? Adam, I think >>> regardless of whether it is a common chondrite, the >>> simple fact that it exists forces science to >>> re-calculate its models for impact craters by >>> chondrites. So Carancas is extremely important. I >>> forsee papers written about Carancas for decades. >>> There will be no roof built, the crater is already >>> mostly destroyed (as I predicted that it would be, >>> thanks to those of us who went there, at least some >>> material was preserved). >>> Michael Farmer >>> >>> --- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Mike and List Members, >>>> >>>> To me, Carancas produced an "impact pit" which is a >>>> form of crater. I will concede the point that it is >>>> also a crater by other definitions, just not >>>> meteoritic. The Sikhote Alin event also produced >>>> several impact pits that were described as such >>>> further constraining the meteoritic definition of an >>>> impact crater. >>>> >>>> Here is a great reference site that clearly defines >>>> crater sizes of 5-20 meters as "impact pits". >>>> Carancas only produced a 13 meter mud hole squarely >>>> defining it as a pit. >>>> >>>> http://www.somerikko.net/old/geo/imp/listinfo.htm >>>> >>>> Pretty soon, the Carancas impact pit it will be no >>>> more than a depression in the ground with urine, >>>> fecal >>>> matter and trash in it. Not to forget, a $90,000.00 >>>> roof will be added on top of a rotted out and the >>>> most >>>> common type of ordinary chondrite in existence at >>>> the >>>> bottom. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Adam >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > Received on Thu 28 Feb 2008 06:10:41 PM PST |
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