[meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale

From: Darryl Pitt <darryl_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:08:28 -0500
Message-ID: <6B36D55A-9F85-4A76-99F9-0FE9713F58EC_at_dof3.com>

Yeah Jason, I didn't refer to your email in its entirely---a tall
order given the length of such rants. Nor was I wasn't responding to
"your message" as there were other contributors to the thread, and my
statement kind of stood on its own as a general review of the currents
in valuation. Jeez.

For the record, Mike Farmer's report of Udei Station having sold for
just $2/gram at Bonhams today.....

...that's right. My consignment. Competitively priced.

Collectors are not hurt by a shake-out of the outliers---those mega-
low and mega-high anomalies--I actually believe we would all
ultimately benefit.


Sincerely / Darryl




On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Jason Utas wrote:

> Darryl, Darren, All,
>
> You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had
> included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't
> refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I
> supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message?
>
>> As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely
>> believe
>> that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell
>> material, that
>> it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing
>> in the
>> marketplace.
>
> So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the
> finders ask for them because....well, I can see why you as a dealer
> would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement
> makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should
> rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense
> whatsoever.
> That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have
> some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the
> final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for
> whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the
> other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the
> ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually
> set them.
>
>> I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered
>> Chergach
>> at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely
>> offer it for
>> $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me.
>
> Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and
> content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large
> at the same cost as the ones they just bought.
>
> In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they
> bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as
> large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a
> 200% mark-up.
>
> I'd be pissed-off, big time.
>
>> Whether we can
>> quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect
>> on the
>> rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's
>> all I'm
>> trying to say.
>
> Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market.
> Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that
> having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most
> people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well,
> you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but
> you are in a minority.
>
> As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled
> to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands
> on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential
> buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that
> way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the
> tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur
> hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were
> recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week?
> Maybe 10%? Maybe 20?
>
> - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction.
>
> Jason
>
> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jason,
>>
>> Small detail....I never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of
>> being "at a
>> loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your
>> unbridled attack
>> on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!)
>>
>> As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely
>> believe
>> that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell
>> material, that
>> it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing
>> in the
>> marketplace.
>>
>> I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered
>> Chergach
>> at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely
>> offer it for
>> $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we
>> can
>> quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect
>> on the
>> rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's
>> all I'm
>> trying to say.
>>
>> All best / Darryl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote:
>>
>>> Darryl,
>>> Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on
>>> numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment -
>>> in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects,
>>> was
>>> selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has
>>> stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per
>>> gram
>>> since then.
>>> How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report,
>>> roughly
>>> 30kg.
>>>
>>> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html
>>>
>>> More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the
>>> entire fall of Park Forest.
>>> It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know.
>>> It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty
>>> brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall.
>>> It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in
>>> one
>>> way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the
>>> value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught
>>> on
>>> video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I
>>> honestly...I'm at a lack for words.
>>>
>>> "Low-end numbers being bandied about?"
>>>
>>> On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by
>>> these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates
>>> for
>>> other falls are "low-end numbers?"
>>>
>>> I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far
>>> overpriced, as
>>> best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers
>>> were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g
>>> initially - less for larger stones.
>>>
>>> You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are
>>> content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't
>>> see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are
>>> happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing.
>>>
>>> Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide
>>> the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g
>>> each.
>>>
>>> It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they
>>> got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did.
>>> If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a
>>> reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I
>>> wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they
>>> found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using
>>> that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites
>>>> as a
>>>> collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there
>>>> are too
>>>> many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have
>>>> become the
>>>> norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with
>>>> meteorites
>>>> have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of
>>>> their
>>>> belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their
>>>> words.
>>>>
>>>> In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video
>>>> associated with
>>>> the
>>>> Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers
>>>> being
>>>> bandied about.
>>>>
>>>> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever
>>>> sell for a
>>>> couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain
>>>> this
>>>> doesn't occur.
>>>>
>>>> All best / d
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =====================
>>>>
>>
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Received on Sun 07 Dec 2008 07:08:28 PM PST