[meteorite-list] Shawnee Tradition

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <413731.12537.qm_at_web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Thaddeus -

Yeah. It's like I've been trying to tell you for some
time - there was a massive impact event at the start
of the Holocene. The only question left now is was it
coincidental to the Holocene start, or was it
causative. I go with causitive, by modifying the North
Pacific Current.

Now as for the "apparat" that allowed me to identify
and accurately work with 13,000 year old materials, in
other words the techniques and methods I used, its
really quite easy:

1) recover and check the translations of accounts of
impacts
2) observe cultural discontinuities
3) Rigourously match 1 and 2.

Then:
4) Take a whole lot of crap from petty scientist and
his associates who think that only comets hit the
Earth
5) Take a whole lot of crap from Mars nuts who think
that they own the NASA budget and that the US has
nothing better to do than spend a hundred billion
dollars flying a few men to Mars
6) Take a whole of crap from American spiritualists
who believe in pole shifts
7) Take a whole load of crap from cosmology
astronomers who think that NASA's astronomy budget is
all theirs
8) Finance the whole thing out of my own pocket so
that the work gets done.
9) Work until I have a stroke
10) Take more crap from various half wits with axes to
grind

Hibbens was an honorable man, and I think that other
holocene start fossil deposits are likely to be found
in Alaska. My guess is that a re-working of his spoil
pits is likely to demonstrate Sandia.

PS - I recovered a tradition of the Ainu destruction
by impact prior to the Japanese people coming into the
islands and circulated it some years ago to the
Cambridge Conference. This was not the Holocene start
impact. See points 1,2,3 above.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas
 


> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:37:58 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Thaddeus Besedin <endophasy at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Shawnee tradition,
> hermeneutic condition
> To: epgrondine at yahoo.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <911641.49974.qm at web62501.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> The Shawnee and others are the ONLY sources of
> Pleistocene cultural information, possibly preserved
> in accounts of the cosmogony of late-coming
> Paleoindian populations (as also can be expected of
> the mythopoesis of indigenous Northern Asian
> populations, e.g. early Jomon Proto-Ainu
> people(~16,000 BP - ~2,450 BP), certainly surviving
> relatively intact through the cold snap of the
> Younger
> Dryas, although not necessarily witnessing an impact
> -
> unless by hemispheric diffuse supernova ejecta),
> that
> a study, constrained entirely to an output of
> speculative-associative quasi-syntheses with all
> caveats understood, can draw from. Unverifiability
> is
> not itself completely at odds with scientific
> practice, and correspondence of paleoclimatological
> reconstructions, geological evidence, and
> archaeological evidence can parallel mythos and, to
> a
> minimal degree, offer a possible translation of
> metaphorical-allegorical narrative. Thus, scholars
> with the aspirations of an E.P. Grondine are limited
> to a view of their subject from distances beyond
> mere
> time (semantic indeterminability/incommensurability
> apply - a transmission from crystallized indigenous
> accounts, to eurocentric 19th c. ethnographers to
> E.P.G.). Archaeolgy is much easier, but certainly
> mute.
>
> Just don't call Hibben a rigorous and ethical
> scientist.
>
> We must, to arrive at the closest degee of recorded
> experience, decolonialize our view of vanquished
> non-european cultural traditions, but what we have
> left (Eurocentric ethnographies)is the best that we
> have left. What do the current Shawnee think of the
> works of white ethnographers?
> One last thing - I found this article at the PNAS
> site, although another list member may have beat me
> to
> it:
> "Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900
> years
> ago that contributed to the megafaunal extinctions
> and the Younger Dryas cooling"
> http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0706977104v1.pdf
> [full-color images, graphs, etc. in PDF format]
>
> --- "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dirk wrote:
> >
> > List and Ed,
> >
> > >Continuing discussion follows EPG`s final
> question.
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:"...
> >
> > "Do you really want to stand by such a display of
> a
> > lack of intelligence and sense, or do you wish to
> > reconsider that statement?"
> >
>
-----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > >Yes, I stand by my statements of fact.
> >
> > They were no statements of fact, Dirk.
> >
> > You made assertions concerning Native American
> > traditions which were both factually incorrect, as
> > well as displayed an amazing ignorance of the
> field
> > of
> > anthropology. You compared millenium old
> traditions
> > with a 175 year old forgery.
> >
> > >And yes, you finally admitted that your facts are
> > indeed "your" belief, thus not science.
> >
> > And how did you get that? My facts are one thing,
> > my
> > beliefs another.
> >
> > I gave the allegories of several Native American
> > religions in "Man and Impact in the Americas", as
> > well
> > as giving their oral histories there - and mainly
> I
> > gave their histories. Those are "facts" about
> those
> > peoples in and of themselves.
> >
> > By the way, the Maya had written writing, and made
> > contemporaneous records of events.
> >
> > What I "believe" is something else. I think that
> > there
> > are Christians who are scientists, Jews who are
> > scientists, Moslems who are scientists, Budhists
> who
> > are scientists. Can't one hold a Native American
> > belief system and be a scientist? Or can science
> > only
> > practiced by atheists and English Deists?
> >
> > Or perhaps history and anthropology are not
> > sciences?
> >
> > >Belief posed as fact or science is poor
> > scholarship,
> > >as your book and excerpts clearly display.
> >
> > So is misrepresenting someone else's work, and
> > misrepresenting their use of materials.
> >
> > >Also, lack of any primary research (nothing
> > remotely
> > demonstrating proof of any Holocene impact)
> >
> > Except for the sudden population losses and
> cultural
> > discontinuities...
> >
> > But then displays of physical evidence are often
> > invisible to some people. So watch the National
> > Geographic Channel program on TV.
> >
> > As a final point, the day after my final warning
> to
> > Darryl on Williamette, I ran into a gentleman
> whose
> > uncle had bulldozed a mound. Three days later he
> > was
> > found dead of heart attack drooped over a toilet
> > into
> > which he had been vomiting "stuff that looked like
> > s***".
> >
> > While that's a fact, it is only my belief that no
> > good
> > will come to Darryl or anyone from dealing
> > Williamette
> > - if he or anyone else wants to join the dataset,
> go
> > on ahead. Beyond this warning, like the others, I
> > will
> > simply look on in "dismay".
> >
> > E.P. Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas



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Received on Tue 09 Oct 2007 12:04:15 PM PDT