[meteorite-list] Shawnee tradition, hermeneutic condition

From: Thaddeus Besedin <endophasy_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:37:58 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <911641.49974.qm_at_web62501.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

The Shawnee and others are the ONLY sources of
Pleistocene cultural information, possibly preserved
in accounts of the cosmogony of late-coming
Paleoindian populations (as also can be expected of
the mythopoesis of indigenous Northern Asian
populations, e.g. early Jomon Proto-Ainu
people(~16,000 BP - ~2,450 BP), certainly surviving
relatively intact through the cold snap of the Younger
Dryas, although not necessarily witnessing an impact -
unless by hemispheric diffuse supernova ejecta), that
a study, constrained entirely to an output of
speculative-associative quasi-syntheses with all
caveats understood, can draw from. Unverifiability is
not itself completely at odds with scientific
practice, and correspondence of paleoclimatological
reconstructions, geological evidence, and
archaeological evidence can parallel mythos and, to a
minimal degree, offer a possible translation of
metaphorical-allegorical narrative. Thus, scholars
with the aspirations of an E.P. Grondine are limited
to a view of their subject from distances beyond mere
time (semantic indeterminability/incommensurability
apply - a transmission from crystallized indigenous
accounts, to eurocentric 19th c. ethnographers to
E.P.G.). Archaeolgy is much easier, but certainly
mute.

Just don't call Hibben a rigorous and ethical
scientist.

We must, to arrive at the closest degee of recorded
experience, decolonialize our view of vanquished
non-european cultural traditions, but what we have
left (Eurocentric ethnographies)is the best that we
have left. What do the current Shawnee think of the
works of white ethnographers?
One last thing - I found this article at the PNAS
site, although another list member may have beat me to
it:
"Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900 years
ago that contributed to the megafaunal extinctions
and the Younger Dryas cooling"
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0706977104v1.pdf
[full-color images, graphs, etc. in PDF format]
 
--- "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dirk wrote:
>
> List and Ed,
>
> >Continuing discussion follows EPG`s final question.
> ----------------------------------------------------
> "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:"...
>
> "Do you really want to stand by such a display of a
> lack of intelligence and sense, or do you wish to
> reconsider that statement?"
>
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> >Yes, I stand by my statements of fact.
>
> They were no statements of fact, Dirk.
>
> You made assertions concerning Native American
> traditions which were both factually incorrect, as
> well as displayed an amazing ignorance of the field
> of
> anthropology. You compared millenium old traditions
> with a 175 year old forgery.
>
> >And yes, you finally admitted that your facts are
> indeed "your" belief, thus not science.
>
> And how did you get that? My facts are one thing,
> my
> beliefs another.
>
> I gave the allegories of several Native American
> religions in "Man and Impact in the Americas", as
> well
> as giving their oral histories there - and mainly I
> gave their histories. Those are "facts" about those
> peoples in and of themselves.
>
> By the way, the Maya had written writing, and made
> contemporaneous records of events.
>
> What I "believe" is something else. I think that
> there
> are Christians who are scientists, Jews who are
> scientists, Moslems who are scientists, Budhists who
> are scientists. Can't one hold a Native American
> belief system and be a scientist? Or can science
> only
> practiced by atheists and English Deists?
>
> Or perhaps history and anthropology are not
> sciences?
>
> >Belief posed as fact or science is poor
> scholarship,
> >as your book and excerpts clearly display.
>
> So is misrepresenting someone else's work, and
> misrepresenting their use of materials.
>
> >Also, lack of any primary research (nothing
> remotely
> demonstrating proof of any Holocene impact)
>
> Except for the sudden population losses and cultural
> discontinuities...
>
> But then displays of physical evidence are often
> invisible to some people. So watch the National
> Geographic Channel program on TV.
>
> As a final point, the day after my final warning to
> Darryl on Williamette, I ran into a gentleman whose
> uncle had bulldozed a mound. Three days later he
> was
> found dead of heart attack drooped over a toilet
> into
> which he had been vomiting "stuff that looked like
> s***".
>
> While that's a fact, it is only my belief that no
> good
> will come to Darryl or anyone from dealing
> Williamette
> - if he or anyone else wants to join the dataset, go
> on ahead. Beyond this warning, like the others, I
> will
> simply look on in "dismay".
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Tue 09 Oct 2007 04:37:58 AM PDT