[meteorite-list] Dueling Keyboards....wasHeidelbergensis-Zhamanshin dates

From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:31:29 -0600
Message-ID: <041701c82bde$3dc565a0$4b29e146_at_ATARIENGINE>

Dear Doug, and Keyboard Krowd,

    I have to tell you, Doug, that I find your very well-
reasoned and logical defense that a reader who doesn't
like or does not agree with a book is morally and legally
entitled to represent himself to the author and demand
the return of his purchase price to be... a really scary idea!

    I have this vision of a distraught William Shakespeare
in the front room of his house in Stratford-upon-Avon,
surrounded by boxes and boxes... He's complaining,
"The basement is full; the attic is full; all the spare rooms...
I got no place to put'em!"

    He waves at the mess, "It's mostly King Lear; nobody
likes that ending. But I get all kinds of complaints. You
wouldn't believe what they complain about; I had one jerk
return Romeo and Juliet because the print was too small!
Romeo and Juliet..."

    Dejectedly, he pours another shot of Bristol Rum,
"And I'm going broke. Hey! I didn't make the full price
of any book! What? You think the printer worked for
nothing? The binder? You think that good linen paper is
free? I tell ya... They're driving me ****ing crazy!"

    Yeah, that authorship is a Risky Business.

    The notion of approval or agreement as a requisite
for actually paying for a book is slippery. Just how
much do you have to like or agree with it for it to be
worth the full price? If you think it's "pretty good"
but you have a few quibbles, can you write the author
and ask for 50 cents back? A quarter?

    Does it stop with books? If you disagree with your
newspaper's editorial, can you withhold that day's cost
from the subscription? Did you ever stop at the box
office after a stinker of a movie and demand your money
back? Maybe there's a reason they give broadcast TV
away...

    I am also curious as to whether Andi has gone through
ALL the books in his house and re-assured himself that he
agrees absolutely, up to the value of the full purchase price,
with each and every one, agrees enough to have not have
any money coming back from their authors, or if he's only
made that evaluation about this one book? 100% approval,
100% satisfaction with all the other books he's ever bought?
Or, maybe he's sent many other books back to their authors
with a demand for a refund? If so, what were the results?

    I'm thinking that they way out of this dilemma is to have
a page-long universal product disclaimer to be included in
every book. You know the kind that are usually found on
every other product we buy except books! Something like
(but longer than) this: "No warranty, express nor implied,
is provided with this book. Batteries not included. Some
assembly is required. Not all items provided are necessarily
identical to those pictured; style, color, and content may
vary. Some settling may occur. Discoloration is normal.
If book is defective, do not return to point of purchase.
All rights reserved. Made in China."


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
To: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>; "Andreas Gren"
<info at meteoritenhaus.de>; "'E.P. Grondine'" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dueling
Keyboards....wasHeidelbergensis-Zhamanshin dates


First, let me commiserate with Steve #2 if this gets him down. "Man and
Impact in the Americas" is related to meteorites, though, and is competing
with Rocks from Space for shelf space, is advertised frequently here, has
even been sold in the Inn Suites in Tucson, so a balanced look under the
hood on the list isn't unreasonable!

Hi Eman,

I have three questions for you:

"OK sure Ed is an author and a critical review of his book is fair--....
over what looks like buyers remorse is not fair." (a moral line in the sand)
(1) Were you there or are you intimately familiar with what was promised
when the book was sold?

"...a whiny criticizing of his work..." (a negative characterization)
(2) Have you read the book from cover to cover, or, are you refering to the
late Friday night "attack"? *

"it was you who fired the first volley with your scathing attack" (an
allegation)
(3) Could you kindly review if a prior post provoked the "first" shot or
confirm it really materialized from the ether?

Comments:
For about $25 (?) spent almost a year ago, I disagree with you: NO buyer's
remorse at all! Furthermore, I find it hard to characterize an "attack" as
you have. (Scathing - yes, Attack - no). When buying a meteorite, we have
a certain set of standards. When reading a peer-reviewed article or book,
we have other standards. When buying any monumental self-edited book, we
are buying a pig in a poke (This means we are buying blindly and based on
recommendations, for those not familiar with the expression, it is a general
expression where you might get either a gem or a dud. I am not implying the
book is either).

We know the reader felt severely defrauded by the book, and we know the
reader screwed up in some of the criticism and then was man enough to admit
it. And the author screwed up in some parts of the book and tried to come
clean, too.

I have the book for almost one year, received as a gift from a kind friend.
Unfortunately, I still haven't read it. If I do find some time to go
through it, I would feel qualified to have a public opinion on the content
in this: "duel". Your interpretation is strictly a moral argument on who is
"right" and what the reader "should" do, have you noticed? :-) I suggest
we let this one run its course by itself. The reader already moved on and
had no wish to kiss the author. Have you ever been to Germany? OK, then
you might have seen some fine distinctions between how the the two cultures
hock their wares?

*Ironic, as you have had berserker responses on ocassion, too, after being
fed up by other listees whose posts annoy you. In this case, as scalding as
the opinion may seem, nowhere do I see where the reader was not restricting
his opinions to the merchandise. Unfortunately, in an emotional lapse of
judgement, the author was not so careful. But no moral crusader came forth
to explain to the author the meaning of the reader's post. For example, he
offered a refund provided the book be donated to a library, yet it was clear
to me the first 15 pages (30 sides) had been removed from the book for other
uses...and a donation to a library furthermore would be an implicit approval
of the book - which clearly was not acceptable to the reader. (Yes: Please
donate the Boggy Sogbottom meteorite to the National Museum meteorite
collection and then I will refund your money if you give me the donation
receipt). We are talking about a library in Hamburg, not an Banana Republic
tax write-off. I respect the difference of both duelers.

Best wishes, and Good health,
Doug




----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
To: "Andreas Gren" <info at meteoritenhaus.de>; "'E.P. Grondine'"
<epgrondine at yahoo.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dueling Keyboards
....wasHeidelbergensis-Zhamanshin dates


> Well... Well.... My take... This looks like a duel
>
> So "duelly" speaking, Andi, it was you who fired the first volley with
> your scathing attack with what you later renounced as your mistakes.
> Were this a duel you fired into Ed's back before even throwing down the
> glove.
>
> Ed, you've already been chastised for your blasphemy and offending the
> creationists. Lucky for you they weren't the kind of zealots that put
> out the fatwa on Simon Rustie. The only consolation is your stoning
> would have been with sky rocks.
>
> You've exchanged volleys now 5 or 6 times and now you've gone back to
> the swords since you've run out of ammunition. The only damage you can
> wreck upon each other is the indignity of insult--Like the rest of us
> really care other than the entertainment value of watching zingers whiz
> by our heads and the puffing and huffing after each go-round.
>
>
> OK sure Ed is an author and a critical review of his book is fair--a
> whiny criticizing of his work over what looks like buyers remorse is
> not fair. Frankly, it has become a personal attack and the gentleman in
> you should either kiss and make up or choose other weapons so long as
> it is taken to the meteorite noise list which is set up to handle
> duels.
>
> Gentlemen, I(We) Thank You for your attention in this matter.
>
> Eman
>
>
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Received on Tue 20 Nov 2007 08:31:29 PM PST