[meteorite-list] Rosetta gravity assist flyby

From: Francis Graham <francisgraham_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:36:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <191796.7071.qm_at_web58712.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hello List
  Larry is right. This was not a screw-up of any
person or group, they performed diligently within the
given parameters. It could be called though, and I
think Larry would agree, a mild screw up of the
system. There should be heliocentric elements updated
as there are Earth orbital elements. This problem has
been going on for some time. Back in the 1970's , when
the Satellite Situation Report was a distributed
printout, it listed heliocentric objects as merely
"Heliocentric Orbit". I wrote to the guy in charge for
more specifics. The letter came back listing every
object I inquired about, with simply the words
"Heliocentric Orbit" beside it.
  Certainly active heliocentric spacecraft such as
Rosetta should be right there with elements.
  I suspect there is an additional problem. I cannot
imagine the DOD software/database did not know Rosetta
was coming in. But the walls of secrecy are up, and
the phone lines are therefore down. It used to be
there was a lot of scientists doing a lot of secret
work who were also active publishing academic work.
They would instantly know. But this is increasingly
not the case.

Francis Graham
KSU
  
--- lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote:

> Hello Doug:
>
> I take exception to your comments that this was
> either a screw-up or a
> joke. These are hard-working dedicated people, most
> of whom I have known
> for 20-30 years.
>
> I do not know all of the details, but when a
> "discovery" is made, the
> discoverers have access to a very large database of
> Small Solar System
> Bodies (asteroids and comets). Generally, things in
> orbit around the Earth
> have distinct enough orbits so that they are easily
> recognized. Not so for
> objects in heliocentric orbits (orbiting the Sun).
> In this case, an object
> was seen that appeared to be a Near-Earth Object
> that was about to make a
> close approach to the Earth and for which the
> database did not have the
> orbital elements. Thus, it was at first considered
> to be a new discovery.
>
> There are nearly 500,000 known asteroids (many with
> poorly known orbits)
> and about 5000 new ones are being discovered every
> month! Maintaining this
> database is not an easy task.
>
> Obviously, someone fairly quickly realized that this
> was not an asteroid,
> but Rosetta, but not before the alert went out for
> astronomers to make
> observations. The system worked!
>
> What did not work, as was pointed out by the Minor
> Planet Center, was that
> unless there is someone who is in a position to
> provide them with the
> orbital elements of Rosetta, there is no way that
> they can put this into
> their database. This is where the system failed.
> Actually it is impressive
> that the Catalina Survey people did see this
> "incoming asteroid" and shows
> how well they are covering the sky in order to
> locate any asteroids
> heading toward the Earth.
>
> However, Doug, Pluto and the IAU decision is another
> story that we should
> discuss over beers sometime.
>
> Larry Lebofsky
>
> On Mon, November 12, 2007 6:51 pm, mexicodoug wrote:
> > Hi Darren,
> >
> >
> > It certainly was an actual screw-up by the IAU.
> The joke I meant was by
> > Catalina Sky Survey, no matter what they say. You
> deserve a medal. Just
> > tell us you didn't look in the back of the book
> (or leave a Google crumb
> > path)! Clyde Tombaugh is is snickering in his
> grave at the foolish
> > bureaucracy that was arrogant enough to strip a
> true astronomer of his
> > life's crowning achievement to play word
> footsies...
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Doug.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rosetta gravity
> assist flyby
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:35:28 -0600, you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Someone has a sense of humour, especially the
> flying couch comment !
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Looks like it might have been an actual screw-up,
> not just a joke.
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
http://blogs.smh.com.au/sit/archives/2007/11/alarm_astronomers_in_a_spi
> >> n_ov.html
> >>
> >>
>
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/071112-technov-asteroid-mistake
> >> .html
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.ht
> >> ml?in_article_id=493152&in_page_id=1965
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>
>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> > ______________________________________________
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> >
>
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> >
> >
>
>
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Received on Tue 13 Nov 2007 08:36:33 AM PST