[meteorite-list] TUCSON AUCTION REALIZATIONS

From: Dave Freeman mjwy <dfreeman_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:39:03 -0700
Message-ID: <45CD3E57.2010704_at_fascination.com>

Dear Dean;
I read your post top to bottom. I really enjoyed your comentary and
agree with you completely. My experience and thoughts point toward your
point of why hide the figures when they would boost the next auctions
attendance and prices regardless of what the former hammer prices were.
thanks for a very entertaining post,
Dave F.

dean bessey wrote:

>I hope I dont put myself in the middle of recent spats
>with this email but here goes anyway so I hope that I
>dont offend anybody here (But no apologies if I do).
>I am a dealer (Not much of a collector anymore -
>almost anything I own is for sale at the right price).
>I have been attending auctions of various sort (Coin,
>stamp, artifact, liquadation, ect) since I was 14 and
>so am very familiar with auctions so I am giving the
>opinion of a dealer who has attended or bid on many
>hundreds of auctions. Everybody knows that I sell lots
>of stuff other than meteorites. Just looking at my
>ebay auctions shows that. While I think that I do a
>good job of taking care of my customers it is all
>business to me.
>And my opinion is that the price realizations should
>be made public.
>(1)For one the meteorite auctions are an anomoly in
>that they dont get the price realized being publicly
>distributed. There might be laws concerning this also
>depending on where the auction is being administered.
>But most places freely give their prices realizes
>(Well, they might charge a small fee in a lot of cases
>- many auctions offer subscriptions which are similar
>priced as a magazine subscription)
>(2)You lose potentially valuable marketing. If you
>read coin and stamp newspapers they will cover the
>auctions and they highlight top lots. No newspaper
>will cover your auction if they cant list some
>realization highlights. They need to make their
>articles exciting. It wouldent look nice if the
>auctioneer said "I dont want people to know what
>everybody paid).
>(3)Bloods auctions has become an important part of
>meteorite world. His first couple were growing pains
>with people sticking anything in as he was worried
>that the bidders would be happy and return next year
>but it has now evolved into an important auction with
>significant items being auctioned and an important
>part of the meteorite world (And meteorite history). I
>know people with collections (Whole libraries really)
>of old stamp and coin auctions and realizations going
>back decades. Its part of his reference material (And
>on exceptional material gives a possible chain of
>ownership - which might help find stolen items for
>example). There are not many meteorite auctions and in
>almost any type of collectible, auctions give an idea
>of what the market has been like over a peroid of
>time. This cannot be done without the prices realized.
>It is a general guide but also a source of newsworthy
>material.
>(4)Potential revenue loss. Large auction houses from
>christies to small mom and pop places often sell
>supscriptions that includes price realized. This
>probably will never apply to bloods auction but
>something in general (Especially for people who cant
>go to tucson) might be interested in a printed
>catalog.
>(5)Legalities and rip offs (No comparison to recent
>list postings intended). I have personally been ripped
>off in auctions before by auctioneers just selling me
>stuff at my top bid when it was supposed to be one
>increment over the high bidder. I would never have
>known without prices realized. I think bidders would
>have more confidence in the integrity of an auction
>with prices realized. Since blood dont own anything in
>his auction he dont have much incentive to scam
>bidders but as an auctioneer he is a part of the
>auctioneering community and knowledgable potential
>bidders are always on the lookout for scams.
>Switzerland has a law that it is illegal to do
>anything that might might in any way keep from maximun
>prices being attained in an auction. As a result
>switzerland is a major place for serious art and
>other type of auctions. Its well regulated and bidders
>trust the auctions that are there (As a funny example
>the philippine government has kilos and kilos of
>jewelry worth many millions of dollars from a former
>first lady that they want to auction off and they want
>a rule in place that she cant bid in an auction - but
>christies told them that this is illegal if they want
>the auction in switzerland as it might prevent getting
>the highest possible price).
>(6)Finally, the reason everybody is against showing
>price realizations. That it will drive prices down.
>Not sure why people have this attitude. Poor knowledge
>of auctions I guess. Auctions certainly dont drive
>down the price of picassos or other rare items. I
>always hear people telling me that they got the deal
>of a lifetime at some stamp or coin auction. They dont
>feel that the price has crashed and use it as a
>bargaining ply for other purchases. More of a bragging
>thing than anybody else. For example, assume a 10 gram
>piece of zagami fell through the cracks and somehow
>went in the tucson auction for $500. I doubt to many
>dealers would then seriously entertain $50 offers even
>though there is a recent record at that price. You
>only have to look at ebay for all the proof you need
>that auctions dont drive or reflect the market. I
>regularly get $2 for items then the next week get $25.
>On many occasions I list stuff 4 or 5 times at $5 or
>$10 and get sick of them so drop the price to one cent
>and they get $20.
>Look at farmers "massive 1 cent sales" that he always
>posts ads to this list for. Some of his stuff
>actually goes for one cent (Dont believe me - look
>over his closed auctions over a peroid of time). The
>previous and next week will get more. He sells stuff
>at one cent but you can bet he dont stay in business
>because those 1 cent sales determins the value of his
>meteorites. Dont sound like a market guage to me.
>Auction realization prices are outdated the minute
>they are printed and are nothing more than a reference
>item.
>(7)Who buys at auctions? If you go to almost any
>regular auction in any collectible you will find the
>hall half filled with dealers. Dealers are there to
>buy stuff for resale (Well, they also buy on behalf of
>customers who want to remain annonomous or cant
>attend). So you can bet that they are not paying top
>dollar. (This supports item #6).
>So for these reasons I believe realizations should be
>made freely available. More potential marketing, more
>trust in the process (One has to wonder just why
>information is not made available to and deliberately
>witheld from buyers - just look at the lies the
>moroccans tell everybody (including what they tell me)
>about the TKW of their recent find. Nobody trusts a
>moroccan anymore - Not that non moroccan dealers have
>not also been guilty of lying about TKW and pairings
>but thats another matter). This uncertainly reduces
>the price that moroccans get for their meteorites in
>the long term as you always have this doubt about what
>you are buying.
>It might help with legal problems (Like everybody else
>in america, Auctioneers can be sued), gives more
>marketing potential for future auctions, creates a
>record for history and the idea that auction
>realizations reduces market prices is silly.
>Bloods auctions are included here because he asked for
>dealers opinions and it is currently the topic in
>question but I am talking about auctions in general.
>One last point. Farmer posted the price realized to
>langs auctions publicly. A lot of people will keep
>their own records (As from experience with other
>collectibles people want this information). An auction
>is an event that can take up all your time. You can
>bet that some of these people will make mistakes in
>the madness of an auction but those erroneous price
>realizations could easily become a matter of public
>record if thats the only record available.
>So its only my personal opinion as one dealer but that
>is my reasons why I believe prices realized should be
>made public.
>Sincerely
>DEAN BESSEY
>www.meteoriteshop.com
>www.neptuneposeidon.com
>AMUNRE on ebay
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Fri 09 Feb 2007 10:39:03 PM PST