[meteorite-list] Neutron production in hyper-velocity impacts

From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:55:05 -0600
Message-ID: <0c1201c84bef$6c8ac5c0$b64fe146_at_ATARIENGINE>

Hi, All,

    For all (if there are any) following this thread,
and puzzled by the mention of the "Fusor," the
Fusor was invented by The Father (and Inventor)
of Television, the late Philo T. Farnsworth!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
contains an excellent description of The Gizmo
and some hints for home contruction (high school
students have built them for science fairs), so
you could build a thermonuclear fusion reactor
in your basement if you were so minded and had
minimal shop skills.

    Here's a home builder site:
http://fusor.us/fusor.html

    And another fine site with lots of other Gizmos:
http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv-old/fusor/construction/

    And this site has a nice big picture of a Fusor where
you can look strainght inside and Watch The Fusion Go!
http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/fusor/bigsys3.html

    If Stan Turecki were still around, he would
probably be selling used ones on eBay. As far as
I know, the appliance version -- Mr. Fusion -- is not
yet available.

    Doug, the plasma of the Big Meteoroid is a
"BiPlasma." The more massive ions+ surround
the B.M. (sorry for that abbreviation) and extend
backwards as a cylinder with plasma toroids in
axial rotation forming its "walls," which wall
surrounds an evacuated core. The free electrons
form a "sheath" that mirrors the outer envelope
of the ions+ sheath. Between the two, there must
be a cavity. Since this B.M. is a cometary icy
body, the deuterium content of the icies is greater
than terrestial. De+ is the lightest ion, hence the
most mobile, etc., etc...

    But -- you can't build it in your basement. Not
on New Years Eve, anyway.


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
To: "Rob Matson" <mojave_meteorites at cox.net>; "G?ran Axelsson"
<axelsson at acc.umu.se>; "Meteorite List"
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Neutron production in hyper-velocity impacts


Rob wrote:
"I'm referring to is inertial electrostatic confinement, where the energy
required is very modest. It's not that difficult to produce neutrons with a
tabletop device using nothing other than electricity"

Hi Rob,

That is a very "long-shot" in more ways than one. Unless I also
misunderstand it, you might have an easier time to figure out how to do cold
fusion. When talking about a collision, the word confinement seems a
contradiction. Are you thinking of something like:

Big Meteoroid enters so rapidly that its plasma trail connects the
ionosphere toward the earth's surface, creating an electric potential along
the entry trajectory. i.e., creating two mega-electrodes (with a long-shot
electrical path between the "hot" ionosphere and the ground's ground). The
heavy water has been also electrolized [somehow, or maybe because its
dissociation constant favors this in these 'odd' circumstances] and the
deuterium ions get accelerated in this axial electrical gradient, but - it
doesn't end there. A second disk "beam" is produced perpendicular, along
the back of the meteoroid from the unbalanced negative charges spilling over
from electrons being stripped from the incident meteoroid face's plasma soup
toward the cross-sectional center of the back of the meteoroid.

Then, the instant it hits the earth, short circuit, the currents surge, and
presto, more deuterium neutrons are blasted everywhere?

Hi Ed,

The X-Rays observed in that link you posted for the comet collision with
Jupiter are the same sorts that Chris described regarding Televisions -
depending on electrons, when he answered Pete's very perceptive question.
The electrons just don't have the energy to do what you want unless
meteoroids are as clever as Rob is remotely caveating. The weakest X-Rays
are basically very strong UV "light". Also, comparing Jupiter to Earth is
not a good idea. It's practically a stunted star. It has incredible
magnetic fields and associated electric currents and an atmosphere way
thicker than Earth's. Maybe someone can even describe what an impact to the
surface of Jupiter looks like (I can't), if it even has anything we would
consider "solid". I wonder how much of Jupiter is deuterium...but I won't
get off the topic.

Best wishes, and a Very Happy 2008 filled with joy,
Doug





----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Matson" <mojave_meteorites at cox.net>
To: "G?ran Axelsson" <axelsson at acc.umu.se>; "Meteorite List"
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:56 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neutron production in hyper-velocity impacts


Hi G?ran and List,

G?ran replied:

> As the temperature that is required to get kinetic fusion between atoms
> is way too high to be reached in an impact that way to generate neutrons
> is closed.

I think you misunderstood the <long-shot> mechanism I was offering up --
perhaps a language translation difficulty with the word "fusor". I
don't mean thermonuclear fusion, of course; what I'm referring to is
inertial electrostatic confinement, where the energy required is very
modest. It's not that difficult to produce neutrons with a tabletop
device using nothing other than electricity, a cleverly constructed
pair of nested electrodes, a (poor) vacuum, and deuterium.

Now while iron or chondritic meteoroids are probably not good fusor
fuel sources, comets may be another story, since they could provide
the deuterium (e.g. heavy water).

G?ran continued:

> The only remaining way that I see is by photo spallation of
> atoms by high energy photons. Typically photons begin to produce
> neutrons on interaction with normal matter at energies of about
> 7 to 40 MeV.

You're not going to get any photons in that energy range for a
simple kinetic impact. What is the maximum temperature we're talking
about -- 15,000 K? 20,000 K? Even at 50,000 K, I don't think there
are any blackbody photons at angstrom wavelengths.

--Rob

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Received on Mon 31 Dec 2007 03:55:05 PM PST