[meteorite-list] Samples

From: Bob Evans <bobe5531_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:40:59 -0600
Message-ID: <009b01c8490b$d8279600$0201a8c0_at_yourae066c3a9b>

Yes, Tim there are some exceptions. I remember when Mike Farmer sent me an
incredible oriented meteorite Roosevelt Co. The Bottom had been cut off and
I can say that the piece was still fabulous. It didn't adversely affect the
piece. But, like Mike said when someone cuts the thing right in half that's
just retarded.
What happened to that Killer large oriented iron that was in your room in
Tucson last Feb? That was a beauty !

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Heitz" <midwest at meteorman.org>
To: "Bob Evans" <bobe5531 at comcast.net>; "Don Rawlings" <psc2410xi at yahoo.com>
Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Samples


>
>
> Bob and Listees
>
> I know somebody that cut the butt ugly part off of an 95 % oriented
> meteorite, it actually made it look much better.
>
> It now looks like a perfect oriented iron and sits well.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Evans" <bobe5531 at comcast.net>
> To: "Don Rawlings" <psc2410xi at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Samples
>
>
>> Don,
>> You touched a nerve there. I hate it when I see an incredible oriented
>> meteorite and then realize that it has been cut or ground for a window.
>> I ve seen a couple recently that I would love to have in my collection
>> and was willing to pay top dollar until I seen the cut ( even on the
>> backside ) and then the value dropped by 80 % in my eyes.
>> All dealers should really know what they are doing before they ruin an
>> oriented meteorite.
>>
>> Bob
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don Rawlings" <psc2410xi at yahoo.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Samples
>>
>>
>>> Doug and listees:
>>>
>>> I find it amazing that some dealers are only too
>>> willing to destroy the beauty of an oriented meteorite
>>> which is obviously a common type to get it classified
>>> and then refuse to get a rare meteorite classified
>>> because they think it "looks like" something someone
>>> else has.
>>>
>>> How is the collector, or his/her heirs, going to sell
>>> that rare meteorite that was never classified? It may
>>> seem like a bargain at the time to buy a field
>>> classified meteorite but there will come a time when
>>> it will most likely be considered worthless in the
>>> secondary market.
>>>
>>> Your advise is certainly sound.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>> --- mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>
>>>> OK, I guess the first thing I assumed (and possibly
>>>> Mike did, too) was since
>>>> you called it a fall it was like Gao-Guenie: a
>>>> witnessed fall.
>>>>
>>>> But since you are apparently discussing an
>>>> unwitnessed fall from a hot
>>>> desert a.k.a. for us, dense collecting area (don't
>>>> know where else to get
>>>> all those Mars rocks), the best thing to do is to
>>>> plot the strewn field. In
>>>> the contemporary world that seems so difficult since
>>>> we can't even get
>>>> location information for one stone that has already
>>>> been through maybe
>>>> several hands.
>>>>
>>>> So I only see two options or combinations between
>>>> them:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Don't buy anything that is not documented.
>>>> Discourage others supporting
>>>> this.
>>>> 2) Buy everything under an agreement of trust from a
>>>> reputable seller and
>>>> submit the batch to a scientist and let him/her
>>>> minimize the guesswork and
>>>> possibly minor tests if doubts come up. Or in a
>>>> positive light, to convince
>>>> the scientist to say the batch is the same material
>>>> or cull out what is not
>>>> to arrive at the TKW.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to by Mars without any formal
>>>> classification, in the form of
>>>> many pebbles, there is no solution except 2),
>>>> whether you go it alone or
>>>> spread the risk with partners. Because you would
>>>> now be representing a rock
>>>> that has been subjectively field "classified".
>>>> While some people can live
>>>> with this, others can't. If you can at least get
>>>> locational information for
>>>> your specimens, you don't have to give the full
>>>> 20/20 - or anything for that
>>>> matter if enough to meet the combined 20/20 is in
>>>> curation as vouchers for
>>>> the group after the naming of your material - if a
>>>> scientist agrees to
>>>> classify and pair it to an existing classification.
>>>> This is the motivation
>>>> of the newer guidelines.
>>>>
>>>> Some people get mad about subjective classification,
>>>> because they broke the
>>>> ground on the sample and "invested", while others
>>>> are pissed that it is
>>>> obvious and common sense dictates the material is
>>>> what it is (arguments
>>>> like, bought from the same trader, got from the same
>>>> nomad, found together):
>>>> with no further support except subjective judgements
>>>> perceived as strong and
>>>> well founded.
>>>>
>>>> This latter may be true, but that still doesn't
>>>> remove the reality. Only if
>>>> the specimens fit together can this be foolproof.
>>>> Even an expert meteorite
>>>> hunter scientist can find or purchase a handful of
>>>> meteorites in the field
>>>> from a known fall and every once in a while a
>>>> terrestrial rock can sneak in
>>>> that has you fooled like a baby. Let me say it has
>>>> happened to me, and it
>>>> is a very frustrating and humbling experience. Some
>>>> time I'll tell the
>>>> story of a meteorwrong that saw me coming it was a
>>>> remarkable fraud that
>>>> would surprise anyone - the best scientists, at
>>>> their first glance,
>>>> included.
>>>>
>>>> So, the reality is also that unless each rock is
>>>> carefully studied, nothing
>>>> can avoid ocassional duds getting mixed in. Not to
>>>> mention incorrect
>>>> pairing of similr meteorites. Luckily in the sandy
>>>> desert this isn't as
>>>> great a problem as areas with varieties of rocks.
>>>>
>>>> How Unsettling, How Disagreeable to the innocent
>>>> collector and enthusiast,
>>>> scientist alike- but true. This is rthe dirty
>>>> laundry of meteorite
>>>> collecting. Hopefully someone has a better
>>>> suggestion, but I wouldn't hold
>>>> my breath unless I were an alchemist capable of
>>>> ethically transmuting
>>>> batches of meteorites ;-) There is no free lunch...
>>>> and no one can make
>>>> promises for something that hasn't been done. (Or
>>>> can they?)
>>>>
>>>> This whole thing gets sticky, when, you buy
>>>> meteorites from the literally
>>>> same batch that another person has already
>>>> classified. Sure: you may have
>>>> the same material, but then again, just because the
>>>> original buyer may not
>>>> have demanded 100% error proffing during the
>>>> classification and is selling
>>>> some stones under the classification he got, doesn't
>>>> make yours any more
>>>> paired to the ones that were used for the typing
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes, Doug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Timothy Heitz" <midwest at meteorman.org>
>>>> To: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>;
>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 12:47 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Samples
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Doug,
>>>> >
>>>> > This is what I'm thinking.
>>>> >
>>>> > Lets say I bought 50 Mars stones and the biggest
>>>> was only 8 grams, now
>>>> > what?
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm thinking what do I do now Doug?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Mike Farmer brings up a good point tens of
>>>> thousands of Gao stones, and
>>>> > why
>>>> > dont cut them or classify all of them! Same with
>>>> Canyon Diablo.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Tim
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
>>>> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 12:16 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Samples
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Tim,
>>>> > I give up, what are you thinking - to sell them
>>>> unclassified except for a
>>>> > 2
>>>> > gram stone and then give a scientist 0.4 grams in
>>>> exchange for classifying
>>>> > the entire fall? Naughty naughty
>>>> > Doug
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Timothy Heitz" <midwest at meteorman.org>
>>>> > To: "Timothy Heitz" <midwest at meteorman.org>;
>>>> "Andreas Gren"
>>>> > <info at meteoritenhaus.de>; "'Peter A Shugar'"
>>>> <pshugar at clearwire.net>
>>>> > Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 12:09 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Samples
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > What if you had 20 stones all around 2 to10 grams
>>>> each all from the same
>>>> > fall?
>>>> >
>>>> > Tim
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Timothy Heitz" <midwest at meteorman.org>
>>>> > To: "Andreas Gren" <info at meteoritenhaus.de>;
>>>> "'Peter A Shugar'"
>>>> > <pshugar at clearwire.net>
>>>> > Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 11:55 AM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Samples
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>> === message truncated ===
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
Received on Thu 27 Dec 2007 11:40:59 PM PST