[meteorite-list] FW: CALI COLOMBIA HOUSE SMASHER> AssortedSizes & Prices!

From: Alexander Seidel <gsac_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:03:48 +0200
Message-ID: <20070812150348.244130_at_gmx.net>

Thought-provoking post, Martin, well done! Be that as it may, everyone seems to look at this from a different view of perspective, and that?s why there are so many different opinions in the end. But such is life! I agree: meteorites is one of the rarest, if not *the* rarest collectible on Earth, probably greatly undervalued as compared to gross availability, but then again I realize that "market price", if you are inclined to call it a "market" at all, is "what people are willing to pay (..or not to pay)"! The community of meteorite collectors is very small as compared to e.g. the community of mineral or stamp collectors, and one can hardly compare things here, especially with pricing, with things there, where real "markets" exist.

Anyway: good post from one of Chladni?s heirs! Salute to Martin and his friend Stefan, they offer excellent meteorites at good prices, they are among the top of the cream - I well know what I am talking about from many personal experiences!

As I also would salute e.g. Mike Farmer or other good names. Buyers listen and beware - the important thing is: always know your dealer!

Alex
Berlin/Germany



-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:12:08 +0200
Von: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: CALI COLOMBIA HOUSE SMASHER> AssortedSizes & Prices!

> Hi Darryl, list
>
> >The foregoing notwithstanding, what is it about Cali that makes it
> >worth $4000/g?
>
> That is easily answered: Because it is a METEORITE.
>
> Now, like so often, we are in a pricing debate.
>
> > Watch out below for a BUY recommendation in a column on Meteorite Market
> >Trends.
>
> I wish, that in such a column an author would at least once look beyond
> our
> backyards.
>
> Our field of collection comprises the rarest matter on Earth.
> Make the stats. ca. 600 metric tons of meteorites all in all.
> "Dark figure" to be found at the few mass iron finds.
> 90% of the total mass of meteorites covered by the Twenty largest iron
> meteorites. 2 small railway cars classified and unclassified stones found
> in
> 20 years hunting in the hot deserts. Two thirds of finds from Antarctica,
> most of the historical finds and falls in institutional collections.
>
> Remember Klondyke, McDuck. Until today 250 times more gold was mined and
> dug
> than meteorites were found. What costs an ounce of gold and what costs an
> ounce of NWAxxxx unclassified H5, W3.
> We have more than 600 tons of diamonds suitable for a brilliant cut. We
> have
> 40kg of Moon. What does an average quality 5 carat diamond cost and what
> 1gram of Moon?
>
> We all must be happy! There is no collectible matter, nothing, what a
> private person can own, that is so exclusive like a meteorite.
> BUT (!) the hobby itself is not "exclusive" at all, in the words literal
> meaning.
>
> At present everyone has access to meteorites. Daily we see meteorites
> going
> at 3-10cents a gram, so that even children from their pocket money could
> afford the stuff.
>
> Please jump into your next jeweller's shop. Ask for the prices of the
> pieces
> there, of the precious stones, buy an opal. Play with the golden ritzy
> watches and other bulk articles.
>
> Take at hand catalogues for the stamp collectors, numismatists, baseball
> card traders.
>
> Take a seat in the auctions houses and observe the results for fine art,
> modern art, antiques, old books, vintage cars.
>
> Let you send the quotations of French Truffles, whereof each year 50 tons
> are harvested and which are sold at Park-Forest- or Howardite-prices (HEDs
> we have altogether from 200 years 1-2 tons).
>
> And finally note which volumes are moved and which prices are paid on the
> mineral shows for higher class mineral specimens, dino-skulls and other
> old
> dead creepy-crawlies....
>
> Meteorites are all much more rare than that mentioned stuff.
> But they can be bought, where people buy their DVDs, their socks ect.
> and often enough the potential buyer has even to balance, whether he'll
> let
> pass a specimen, because the shipping costs would account for a to high
> percentage of the overall price.
>
> So can't we see, in what for a comfortable, even paradisiac situation we
> are
> as collectors? Isn't it moot to discuss, whether a stone should cost 1$ or
> 100$ per gram?
> Shouldn't we be instead pleased as a Punch, that so few people on Earth
> like
> to collect meteorites and that neither the institutional research has at
> present a greater interest in meteorites;
> that the collectors community is so small and growing so slow, that the
> desert rush, although it comprised only a few tons, wasn't immediately
> absorbed, so that John Doe hasn't to be a millionaire to assemble a
> representative collection of the rarest matter on Earth?
>
> Thus, what shall we debate about prices? I mean and you and me know, that
> a
> good part of the collectorship is aware of these circumstances and that
> they
> silently enjoy the theoretically absurd price level of the recent years
> and
> know exactly, that the stones, they are buying now, they won't get in
> their
> lives again at so affordable prices.
>
> Now perhaps the big simplifiers will jump on the thread (as so often)
> rattling off their Mantra: supply & demand, supply & demand...
> But let's oppose a similar simple thought:
> If the above mentioned total masses of meteorites wouldn't be true and if
> so many meteorites are offered at "exaggerated" prices...then the
> "meteorite
> market" would be a financially very rewarding biz, right?
> So I ask now: Where are then the hosts of fulltime meteorite dealers?
> Shouldn't then the dealer's list have not 100 entries, whereof many are
> collector-dealers, hobby sellers, professional dealers, who have
> meteorites
> as one assortment among others - shouldn't be found then there a thousand
> or
> more dealers?
>
> In almost each village, you'll find an antiques shop.
> In each small township, you have a jeweller.
> In each mid-size town, you have an art shop.
> In each big city you have a rock and fossils shop.
> In each metropolis, you have a meteo... oooops!
>
> Hands up! Who from you dealers runs a physical, a "real" meteorite retail
> store?
> I know, that Carion has a small shop in Paris, selling minerals and
> meteorites.
> Can someone supply me with the addresses of the meteorite shops in
> Washington, London, Rio, Tokyo, Mexico City, Moscow?
>
> Well, exclusive is only the circle of meteorite collectors. Everyone knows
> everyone, a cosy affair and if a new face appears on a show or on the list
> it is a true event.
>
> (And for a dealer it would be ways more attractive to catch a single
> sturgeon, selling the caviar than to discover the 49th new lunaite.)
>
>
> Other thing:
> If e.g. your sink is blocked and you call a plumber, then he will bill you
> for the call out fees or travel costs (don't know the right English word)
> and the hours of work.
> I guess, that should be natural in the meteorite market too?
>
> Hmmm, can one of the Nevada or California hunters give us a hint please,
> what their travel costs are and how many grams they are finding per hour
> on
> average? They must find a lot, if Franconia sells at 1 buck per gram...
>
> Last and funny thing:
>
> "Some of you may recall when the Moon first came out of the Sahara and
> was selling for $25,000/gram, I suggested on this very list that to
> pay such a sum would be folly and soon prove insane."
>
> Well, some will recall the times when Moon came out at 200,000$....
> (also not that bad, NASA paid 350,000$/g. And 30 years of Antarctic hunts
> cost also a lot, so I fear that the 10 pounds found there would end up
> also
> with a 5-digit-number per gram).
>
> But the really funny thing and I guess, some dealers can confirm that
> phenomenon, is the reaction, you often will get, if you are offering Moon
> beyond the backyard of the meteorite circle to people, who have no clues
> about meteorites.
>
> Namely, if you tell them, that there are only 40kgs of lunar meteorites on
> Earth, that the 380kgs Apollo rocks are a big no-no, that there are (would
> have to sum up) 80 kgs or so of Mars, if you tell them the costs for the
> Apollo-missions, the Luna-probes, the costs for Hayabusa or a
> sample-return-mission from Mars, the amounts of gold and diamonds mined so
> far...
>
> ...then you'll really get difficulties with the credibility, when you are
> offering then a piece of Moon at 1000$ or 2000$ per gram or a Mars at 300
> or
> 800$/g.
> Because it is simply not plausible for them, that something so incredible
> rare can be so cheap and they will come to the conclusion, that the
> material
> must be a fake and the offer a fair swindle.
>
> You will observe it likewise with those people buying and taking part in
> the
> markets told above, usually spending larger sums than the average
> meteorite
> collectors,
> as well as at the lower end. If you run a meteoritical website, always
> here
> and there will contact you laypeople asking: I won a piece of Mars or Moon
> on ebay at 20 or 50 bucks, can that really be true??
> (and you might observe it with our lunar cases that often, seen the
> weight,
> when laypeople or collectors from other fields are bidding on them and
> they
> start at zero, that in their perception the material has to be more
> valuable
> then the actual price paid on the meteorite-collectors-market).
>
> So perhaps we were all unfair some days ago, and Sssteve was right to
> offer
> his rotten desert H5 at 8$/g.... :-)
>
>
> Thus I guess, that price discussions are to a certain degree not
> comprehensible. Whether the "hammers" suddenly should cost 10 times more
> than a year ago, that a Campo should cost 50/kg and not 200/kg.
> That someone sold something 3 times more expensive than another. That a
> new
> superb fall like Bassikonou could be to expensive with 4$/g. And so on.
> Who
> cares given the prices meteorite would bring, if meteorite collecting
> would
> be a normal collection field like all other too?
>
> Those, who think, that something is to expensive - nobody can force them
> to
> buy: Let it be!
> The other collectors are glad and happy with the price levels of our days,
> and on the long run, well, most know what will happen.....
>
> My conclusions is, that each of the Three Michaels could paint also
> 20,000$/g on Cali and nobody of good reason could complain.
>
> Happy Sunday with 100 perseids!
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darryl
> Pitt
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 12. August 2007 03:07
> An: Meteorite List
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: CALI COLOMBIA HOUSE SMASHER>
> AssortedSizes
> & Prices!
>
>
>
> I've long thought that Mike Farmer is The Man. What Mike has
> accomplished and continues to accomplish is amazing; he is without peer.
>
> The foregoing notwithstanding, what is it about Cali that makes it
> worth $4000/g? Is it because it fell in an extremely rough area and
> there is a couple hundred grams---of one of the stones? Or is it
> because it went through a roof---even though more than one hundred
> roofs have been penetrated by cosmic debris? What happens when Mike,
> and others who emulate Mike, soon acquire another new common
> chondrite that goes through a roof in a similarly rough
> neighborhood? Is that worth $4000/g as well? More than 10x the
> value of some Martian meteorites? And what if it's a lower-class
> roof in Nogales---what's that worth? (And I don't know if many of
> you know this, but Peekskill---it's the Wild West up there.)
>
> Some of you may recall when the Moon first came out of the Sahara and
> was selling for $25,000/gram, I suggested on this very list that to
> pay such a sum would be folly and soon prove insane. Cali has now
> entered the realm of the lunar-tics.
>
> Watch out below for a BUY recommendation in a column on Meteorite
> Market Trends.
>
> dp
>
>
>
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Received on Sun 12 Aug 2007 11:03:48 AM PDT