[meteorite-list] OFF TOPIC the ugly weathered chondrite AD? DISGUISED?

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 03:27:25 -0700
Message-ID: <93aaac890708050327p3e0de789lc607874fe25a7545_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hello Martin, All,

And what I say to that is that even if anyone says a most rude and
foul thing, if you decide to pretend that you have any right to
chastise them, you should do so in a courteous manner.

In this case, list policy would require whoever dislikes Steve's posts
enough to complain to take it off-list immediately by talking directly
to Art or Steve without telling me (and the other 600 blokes and gals
tuning in) about it. My main purpose here isn't to defend Steve's
posts, even though I find it possible using the list rules to do so in
a rather prevalent manner.

My main purpose is to hopefully get all of this rubbish off of the
list for good (it's a long shot, I know, but no one else seems to want
to say anything publicly (thanks for the support, of you who sent it).

No. What I've told you all several times now is that posting a
response to Steve whether on-list or not doesn't get him to stop
posting. You can send and send all you want, and the only end result
is more emails in everyone else's inbox. More attacks from the
anti-Steves, more apologetic or possibly angry posts from Steve, and
the same number of AD's and giveaways and other posts in between.

It doesn't help your cause to send the emails to the list. Get that.
Yes, what Steve's doing may or may not be discourteous. It may or may
not be downright insulting. I refuse to judge, seeing as I know that
I have only an educated guess at his intentions for posting based on
what little I've seen of him. That said, the general idea explored so
far, the use of the list to bash him, is something that I find
downright insulting as a list-member. You can hate him all you want,
and I'm sure a good few of you do, not to mention countless other
people probably including me to some degree right now. But you
shouldn't use the list to express this.

And you don't openly attack me. You don't openly attack anyone else.
And the reason for this is because it's downright nasty. It's a clear
violation of list rules; emails sent to the list with the intent to
cause emotional harm to Steve in the hope that he will stop posting.
Other people are more eloquent in their defence, better skilled to
deal with such open verbal shamings, and hence you don't do it to
them. Also, Steve appears to have taken on the ever-present list role
of the scapegoat, which one person has always seemed to hold for some
period of time, until his or her replacement (probably just 'his' at
this point - I can't remember a girl having taken up the mantle yet)
has come along to take their place. As such, he has received rather
sparse defence up to this point.

I've just had enough of this. If you have a problem with him, take
the high road and deal with it in a civilized manner. I don't know
what he'll do in response, but if you do act in such a way, your own
claims will take on a more legitimate tone and you might actually get
somewhere (no matter how many list-members agree with you [or
disagree], they still can't do anything - it's up to Art).
You aren't going to persuade Steve to stop by asking him. People have
tried literally for years. It 'ain't gunna work.'

If you'd like to contact Art, don't post to the list - use the
meteorite-central address and contact him directly. Yes, I'm mildly
annoyed by Steve's posts, which are often...less than enlightening.
That said, blatant personal attacks should have a lesser place
than...those sorts of posts....on the list, don't you agree?

"Tonight I am taking out my lovely wife to
dinner, it is her birthday to day.So after a 9 hour day,I am going to
enjoy a 3 day weekend and enjoy myself.1 week till mazatlan,mexico.Again
thanks to all who support me."

Steve


"Time to throw this ass off of the list. I will donate
$10- to the Greensburg Relief fund if this clown does
not offer to sell or give away this crap witin the
next month."

Anti-Steve

- Which do you see as worse? For me there is a clear difference
between the two, and in my opinion, only one of these people has
intentions that warrant their being removed from this list. Also,
note the misspelling in Don's post ;)
Unlike my last email, I think his was short enough for his email
provider's spell check function to still work properly. Shame it
didn't.

Now, if you forgive me, I have a most busy several days coming up, as
if the last few weren't fun enough. I daresay I'll ill-advisedly take
time out to answer emails, but I really do feel like resting the ol'
noggin for a bit.

Oh - and does anyone have any main masses laying about?
A new iron would be nice...any new NWA's (...or of course non NWA's) out there?

Toodles,

Jason


On 8/5/07, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
> Jason,
>
> Rule 2) Be COURTEOUS ...
>
> Well, if somebody empties out his garbage can every day in front of your
> door and you and your neighbours ask that person frequently not to do so,
> but despite he's promising to keep his trash in future, he continues...
>
> I'm perhaps to old-fashioned - but that behaviour I wouldn't call
> "courteous" and I have difficulties to find another interpretation...
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason
> Utas
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. August 2007 00:46
> An: Meteorite-list
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] the ugly weathered chondrite AD? DISGUISED?
>
> Hello Marcin, Dirk, Don, All,
>
> I, too, am fed up with these posts, but feel obliged to point out that
> the list policies (copied here from the meteoritecentral page) read as
> follow:
>
> General List Policies
>
> 1) Posts need to relate -in some way- to meteorites
> 2) Be courteous and professional at all times
> 3) Please include the 'subject' of the post in the subject box
> 4) Send emails in text format, not -HTML-
> 5) Do not send emails with -file attachments- to the list - include a file
> link
> 6) Make sure you can back up statements with -facts and references-
> 7) Do not post -major advertisement- emails to the list- include a 'sale'
> link
> 8) If you are posting a URL for a sale, include 'SALE' in the subject box
>
> To break these down....
>
> 1) Posts need to relate -in some way- to meteorites
>
> - Steve has generally stuck to this rule. There have been a few
> indiscretions, but I recall a number of list members posting
> completely unrelated things such as, well, vacation pictures and
> pottery made by their children, not to mention other things...don't
> hold double standards.
>
> 2) Be courteous and professional at all times
>
> - Open to interpretation. I would not call Steve's posts
> professional, but then again, there are far less-professional people
> on the list who I will not name. I would like to note that the people
> who publicly attack his posts, in my opinion, fall into this category.
>
> 3) Please include the 'subject' of the post in the subject box
>
> - Steve generally sticks to this - I know you guys and gals get all
> riled up about the "AD" bit in the subject line, but that's later.
>
> 4) Send emails in text format, not -HTML-
>
> - Is this really a problem? Posts get delayed if sent in this format,
> but I don't know if it makes Art do more work...better just follow it,
> which I think Steve does.
>
> 5) Do not send emails with -file attachments- to the list - include a file
> link
>
> - A number of people have been sending attachments lately. This does
> not include Steve.
>
> 6) Make sure you can back up statements with -facts and references-
>
> - Hmmm...I'm going to have to say that Matteo rather annoyed me with
> his post that stated that I, as a meteorite hunter here in California,
> take NWA's and seed the desert here with them. But that's neither
> here nor there...Steve hasn't done this, as far as I know. Yes, he
> said he wouldn't post to the list as much, but it's not a list policy
> 'not to lie' - I know for a fact that people do it on here all the
> time, and in fact, the majority of the lying on-list is probably done
> by a few of the dealers held in the very highest regard. Again,
> neither here nor there...at least Steve's intentions don't appear to
> be blatantly malevolent, as do some of the other posts that I see on
> here, with nine years of background knowledge behind them...
>
> 7) Do not post -major advertisement- emails to the list- include a 'sale'
> link
>
> - Hasn't been a problem with Steve.
>
> 8) If you are posting a URL for a sale, include 'SALE' in the subject box
>
> - Well, this is different, isn't it. I guess there is a sort of an
> "AD" rule, but most list members break it by not posting "SALE" in the
> subject line. Most of you put "AD" in there instead. Neither of you
> (very general plural 'you') follow the letter of the law.
>
>
> Ok, ok, I know - this must be very annoying, my saying this, but I
> think you should think about this for a minute.
>
>
> There are a good number of you who hate Steve. This is commonly known.
> You detest all of his posts: sales, giveaways, requests, exclamations
> of a specimen arriving, whatever they may be, you just complain and
> seem to get pretty generally riled-up.
>
> Why do you still read them? I stopped long ago, when they started to
> get annoying.
>
> You guys make it sound as though you opened his last post expecting to
> find some gem of great intellectual or scientific importance, and upon
> opening it, found an add.
>
> Are you that stupid?
>
> I'm really quite sorry, but if you are, I think it should be you
> leaving the list and not him.
> It's called a delete-button. If your email doesn't have one of them,
> I'll give you double whatever you pay per month for your email service
> to switch to a free email that does have one of those nifty little
> things.
>
> So...
> It's not more than an hour or so after Steve has made his initial post
> and there are no fewer than three (3) angry (well, it's really 2 angry
> and one more reasonable) responses, one of which contains an
> expletive aimed at Steve.
> (That's really quite professional of you, Don, see list policy number
> 2, which you just, in my opinion, broke.)
> I'd have to say thank you for proving my point. I have four spam
> messages where I would only have had one. Thank you, all of you.
> Your posts, I'm sure, are going to get Steve to stop his posts
> forever.
>
> And if you have something to say to Art, I daresay this fellow -
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> mailto: listman at meteoritecentral.com
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> ( ^ this is Art's ~supersecret~ email address, just as I found it on
> the list-guidelines page, ~one click~ off of the meteoritecentral
> ~main page~ :D
>
> [I know it's not your fault Marcin - I know English isn't your first
> language, and I recognize that my negotiating French websites, even
> though I've taken four years of the language in school, and can speak
> it reasonably well, would be highly pragmatic. Don and Dirk on the
> other hand.....wow.]
>
> So as I was saying, I wish the fellow who answers to the email I put
> above will somehow console you, because, as much as I'm sure the other
> 600 people on this list love to hear you ramble about ~your~
> grievances regarding ~your~ having misplaced ~your~ delete button, I
> do not.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> On 8/4/07, PolandMET <marcin at polandmet.com> wrote:
> > > STEVE, Is this an AD disguised as a question as you
> > > often do? ADs REQUIRE AD: IN THE SUBJECT HEADING!
> > > FOLLOW THE RULES AND YOUR OWN WORDS ABOUT POSTING ADs,
> > > GIVEAWAYS, ETC. THAT YOU PROMISED TO THE LIST STARTING
> > > WAY BACK IN 2002! IT APPEARS THAT YOU INTEND TO SELL
> > > IT; DON`T YOU?
> >
> > Oh comone Dirk.
> > This guy dont listen and think we are more stupid than he is.
> >
> > I appel again (to Mr ART)
> > This list need real admin/moderator. Otherwise this spam continue. Steve
> > spam and answers spam to Steve spam. Not matter if Steve is nice guy or
> how
> > many list members love his spam emails. Steve frequently broke this list
> > rules and should be punished for that otherwise persons (dealers) who
> comply
> > with them looks like stupid noobs. I dont like to be a noob.
> >
> > I know, to be moderator is not easy work, and kicking someone ass in small
> > community like this one not bring glory, but In my modest opinion We all
> > must comply with our rules or lets do there Wild West and another valuable
> > persons will leave like happend before.
> >
> > We are not children and Steve is also not a kid so or he will stop
> advertise
> > every single gram of his chondrites or he should be kicked from list for
> > week, month or forever. This is normall on every forum where admins work
> > preperly. And dont say that I can press DEL key easy. Every crime should
> get
> > his payback. Spam is one of the biggest problem in internet at present
> time.
> > But many peoples dont know this becouse they easy accept that 9 of 10
> emails
> > they receiving is only viagra, medicine, p***s enlargement, warez
> software,
> > gold and diamonds in tons or millions of dollars waiting for our bank
> > accounts.
> >
> > I dont want to be like a angry bee, but this situation was ridiculous
> months
> > ago, and become insane now. We say stop do this Steve, he apologize and do
> > the same next hour, day by day, week by week.
> >
> > Are You guyz really soo interested reading all the time about next Gao he
> > have or next giveaway or that he need information how much cost 1gram of
> > Sikhote Alin ???? Looks like this is more interested than new classified
> > achondrites or Mike trips becouse only few persons frequently try to stop
> > this spam, from few hundreds of persons subscribed.
> >
> > I say: Stop all bullshit on that list. Spam and personal fights, becouse I
> > want learn more about meteorites.
> >
> > I really like to know Art's email (anyone?), to forward him my email.
> Maybe
> > if more persons, who think like me and Dirk, forward him their own
> opinions
> > and feelings, maybe he will change "something", the same as he do before
> > (list history topic).
> >
> > -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
> > http://www.Meteoryt.net marcin at meteoryt.net
> > http://www.PolandMET.com marcin at polandmet.com
> > http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195
> > --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
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Received on Sun 05 Aug 2007 06:27:25 AM PDT