[meteorite-list] Turkmenistan falls

From: Jeff Grossman <jgrossman_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 18:00:00 -0400
Message-ID: <OF8709E848.14000294-ON852572B7.0078DE6D_at_usgs.gov>

You know, I have no memory of ever worrying about
this possible pairing on the NomCom. It's
possible it slipped through the cracks (either
the committee's or my mind's). In any event, if
somebody made a strong argument on
chemical/petrologic/isotopic grounds that they
are the same, given the circumstances, the NomCom
could take up the question of whether to abolish
the name Dashoguz. Somebody is going to have to make the case to us first.

Similar things have happened in the past, when we
abolished the names Guenie, Fuc Bin, and a few others.

jeff

At 03:21 PM 4/8/2007, MexicoDoug wrote:
>"DASHOGUZ (H5 W3) and KUNYA-URGENCH (H5 W2)"
>
>sorry if you didn't pick this up in context but it is my typo should be:
>DASHOGUZ (H5 S3) and KUNYA-URGENCH (H5 S2)
>
>Best,
>Doug
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "MexicoDoug" <MexicoDoug at aim.com>
>To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:01 PM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Turkmenistan falls
>
>
>"I do not understand why noncom agreed to give a separate name to a
>meteorite that was for sure removed from a fall place and has 100% similar
>studying and visual data."
>
>Hello Serge, Dirk, Martin, List,
>
>Serge, this is exactly what I contemplated as I posted the unlikely chain of
>events in this thread surrounding DASHOGUZ (H5 W3) and KUNYA-URGENCH (H5 W2)
>chondrites, regarding the fantasy tale about NomCom. Your account sheds
>some very good background! I think what would be grand is for Vernadsky to
>examine DASHOGUZ and for NAU to examine KUNYA-URGENCH in comparisons (if
>they haven't already), and to comment on any qualitative differences in
>shock stages. Also whoever bought the main mass of DASHOGUZ, it would be
>very educational to hear their first hand version as the account in the
>meteoritical bulletin is rather weak and seems odd to the uninitiated why
>the NomCom would have allowed this to be a witnessed fall if it was found
>several weeks later as stated. They always are pressured to make these hard
>calls as they can't sit on the fence. While plenty of "falls" are found
>later and certified as falls a la Millbillillie, others are not due to
>sometimes stricter criteria, so it would be very satisfying in this case to
>have a little more detail on what motivated this decision (have a newspaper
>or something that mention at least a little bit of "thunder" accompanying
>the "fireball").
>
>Best wishes and Good Health,
>Doug
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: meteor a
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com ; Martin Altmann
>Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 10:58 AM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Turkmenistan falls
>
>
>Hi All,
>I want to mention that it has to be a very funny story about the "second
>fall" named Dashowuz.
>First real fall was at Kunya Urgench. I was there and brought a lot of
>material from there. After many discussions with the people that I want to
>buy stones like that I know that some of the mass (about 7 kg) was moved to
>Dashowuz. At that time I had no possibility to find the person in Dashowuz.
>But later we heard about another "fall". About half a year later only.
>Somebody bought a meteorite there.
>Please look at the map -- distance about 50 km, please look at the analyzes
>of both meteorites -- SAME, please look at the images of both of them --
>SIMILAR!!, please look at the description of the stones -- very active iron
>is oxidizing fast. TWO BOMBS (METEORITES) DO NOT FELL IN THE SAME HOLE! Only
>in desert we can find two (more) similar meteorites nearby. But in this case
>they'll be parts of a shower and will be named as one meteorite or they'll
>be different with big difference in Earth live.
>I do not understand why noncom agreed to give a separate name to a meteorite
>that was for sure removed from a fall place and has 100% similar studying
>and visual data. Really stupid.
>Sorry that did not said this before...
>All the best,
>Serge
>
> > From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> > To: MexicoDoug at aim.com; > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:59:05 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Turkmenistan falls
> >
> > Hi Doug,
> >
> > and you forgot to mention, that the Turkmen-people had wished, that the
>1ton
> > stone would have hammered that Nyjazov right on the head, as he was an
> > especially idiotic example of the meanwhile rarer species, called
> > "megalomaniac dictator".
> >
> > Nyjazov wrote a pseudo-religious book, an incredible rubbish. That book he
> > made to the main subject in all schools and no university diploma without
> > the examinee being able to recite the content word by word.
> > He let build monuments for this book, in TV-shows the people danced arounf
> > that book (and he wasn't pleased, that most national libraries all around
> > the world, refused to accept the copies he presented them). In the capital
> > he let errect a golden statue of himself, motor-operated to turn around
>for
> > the sun always shining in his face. He officially redefined the names of
>the
> > months, one is named now after his mother. Frequently he arranged song
> > contests, with the requirement that all lyrics had to praise his
>splendour,
> > glory and wisdom.
> > Those were after a while even for him so boring, that he didn't attend the
> > spectacles anymore.
> > In the capital he started a project, that on each intersection underpasses
> > were built, and by law the pedestrian had to use them, although there are
> > almost no private cars in town, only for not disturbing him, when he is
> > going by car.
> > He bleed his people dry, destroyed the medicare, which is now worse than
>in
> > Africa, he cited the people to hard labours, arbitrary imprisonments &
> > torture were the orders of each day.
> > Thanks God he wasn't so militaristic like e.g. Kim Jong-il,
> > but in the row of dictators a Lukashenko is a choir boy in comparision.
> > That man was mentally insane.
> >
> > I've some hundred grams of his "Sapamurat Turkmenbashi" H5 left. Small
>rusty
> > fragments. But I will store them a few years, as they are still suffering
> > from the Russian disease and underrated. Yep it has 1ton tkw, but 1ton of
> > that 1ton is a single stone. No supply anymore. Happy those, who bought in
> > time!
> >
> > Buckleboo!
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> > MexicoDoug
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. M?rz 2007 04:31
> > An: Meteorite Mailing List
> > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Turkmenistan falls
> >
> > Dear Listees,
> >
> > I just noticed Mike offered up for sale a meteorite from Turkmenistan,
> > beautiful!
> > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170095403910
> >
> > DASHOGUZ (H5) fall, 1998. This would appear to be the fresh good stuff
> > recovered by Kakabay Annaniyazov around the rim of the crater as
>everything
> > in the crater was apparently terribly oxidized officially with a total of
> > only 7kg. While NAU only has 21 grams for classification the rest seems to
> > be in the hands of an anonymous private collector.
> >
> > Check out this little gem that coincidentally came into my inbox
> > (embellished only slightly):
> >
> > On June 20, 1998, the eve of the anniversary of the democratic
>authoritarian
> > head of state of Turkmenistan was to celebrate the anniversary of his rise
> > to power on June 21 (Summer Solstice). By decree, a meteorite fell on his
> > country on that day to herald in the celebration - weighing well over a
> > metric ton! A diehard meteorite devotee, the kingly leader thought, ...
> > "This one has my name all over it".
> >
> > He then decreed that the meteorite would be named "His Excellency, World
> > Leader of Turkmens and President Saparmurat Atayevich Niyazov", after
> > himself. We better know this meteorite as KUNYA-URGENCH (H5), as the
> > Nomenclature Committee did not respect his wishes with official status. It
> > was then decreed in some circles underground, that members of said
>committee
> > would have their tongues cut out if they ever set foot in Turkmenistan
> > looking for meteorites. The King emphasized this point by commanding a
> > repeat occurrence for collectors.
> >
> > Sure enough, on September 5, 1998, two and a half months later, another H5
> > fell which was named DASHOGUZ, just 50 kilometers away from the original.
> > The British Museum then was rumored to diplomatically motion for the
>tongues
> > of its colleagues by making Turkmenbashy (=Great Leader of the Turkmens) a
> > synonym in the style of Alexander the Great, using his first name: also
> > known as: Saparmurat Turkmenbashy (Saparmurat the Great Leader of the
> > Turkmens). And that official synonym, given the nod by Turkmen scientists
> > for the original Turkmenbashy fall, continues today.
> >
> > His Excellency, Great Leader of Turkmens and President Saparmurat
>Atayevich
> > Niyazov unfortunately joined the stars from whence he came officially
>around
> > the Winter Solstice (December 21, 2006).
> >
> > It is an interesting footnote that those are the only two witnessed falls
> > ever recorded for Turkmenistan :-) The new President of Turkmenistan is:
> > Gurbanguly M?likguly?ewi? Berdimuhammedow soon maybe to add Turkmenbashy.
> > The grapevine has it he may also command a meteorite fall in his name to
> > consolidate rule in this challenging resource rich country - and his is
> > rumored to be the son of Turkmenbashy.
> >
> > Best Health and Best Wishes,
> > Doug
> >
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA
Received on Sun 08 Apr 2007 06:00:00 PM PDT