[meteorite-list] HOW to Get a grip....

From: Michael L Blood <mlblood_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 16:14:56 -0700
Message-ID: <C23D7400.34F3D%mlblood_at_cox.net>

Hi all,
        The "problem" is much more simple than people want to accept:
        Let's first look at what the "problem" is NOT:
1) It is NOT that Art does not take a far more active
role. He set up the list to be self operating. It cost him time and
bandwidth and he is very slow to suspend people. Matteo has been
suspended from the list and keeps tweeking his email address and
re-registering - just ignoring the fact he was suspended. As I said,
Art set up this list to function automatically and is NOT going to
spend a ton of time dealing with it.
        Mike Farmer was suspended at least once. He came back after
many months when Art let him. As bad as he sometimes is these days,
he is not nearly so bad as he used to be. Furthermore, he does
contribute a lot to the list, sharing stories of his adventures, photos,
of the trips, etc.
        There are several others who have been suspended and eventually
returned. Remember, we are all on this list due to Art's good will
and Art is very, very slow to suspend anyone. So, again, Art's action
or lack of action is not the problem.
2) The real problem is not even the few people who occasionally act
like jerks.
        Someone wrote, "I think that if we all just try to consider what we
say before we say it, act responsibly and accept responsibility for when
we cause offence...."
        Well, of the 600 list members, clearly there are a few who are NOT
going to do this. However, as I said, even they are not the problem.
        THE REAL PROBLEM:
        The real problem is how dozens of people RESPOND to them - if they
were ignored when out of line, there would be MUCH, MUCH less crapolla.
        That is the fact.
        Three or four dozen of us can write dozens and dozens of "opinions"
about "free speech" vs "censorship" vs "responsibility" etc. until we are
blue in the face. The fact is that if all the people who really resent this
behavior refused to acknowledge it, withheld all comment, changed the
topic, gave no attention at all to it, there would be far less of it. At the
very least, we would only then have to deal with the actual behavior,
not twenty or thirty emails ABOUT the behavior.
        If you MUST protest, write the offender OFF LIST and request they
settle their differences with the other party off list. If they respond to
you on list, you still refuse to respond on list. EVER.
                                        -------------
        Now, if you don't like this solution... too bad. You will then be
contributing to the "problem" against which you so adamantly protest.
        That's a fact Jack.
        Art is not going to change.
        These people are not going to change (they have proven that)
        It is we who must change our response - by having NONE.... ever.
        This is our responsibility. If you have ever studied animal and
human behavior you know that by far the most effective method of
extinguishing undesired behavior is to completely ignore it. On the
list you see attempt after attempt of someone telling one of these
people to take it somewhere else and they ALWAYS exhibit the
exact same behavior in response, justifying their "stance" and even
sometimes attacking the person bringing it to their attention.
        About a year ago Bernd pointed out that we were "feeding the
ducks" by commenting to them on their behavior. Let's put an end
to this. Clearly, the offenders are not going to. So, we can. Or at least
we can isolate and minimize the behavior to the few offenders by
IGNORING IT - not becoming part of it.
        Best wishes, Michael




on 4/7/07 12:30 PM, PolandMET at marcin at polandmet.com wrote:

>> Why Art doesn;t just step in and delete delete delete I do not know, but I
>> am getting increasingly fed up with this constant verbal jousting.
>
> Hi
> Im affraid that we need REAL admin, not virtual "Texas Ranger" like Art. I
> have seen him on the list maybe 2-3 times last years. This not enough.
>
> On normall forums, like this about computer hardware where Im registered You
> can be banned or warned for smaller sins than calling someone a Gay. Not
> "topic related" mails are immediatelly deleted by forum moderatos. But here
> is real bonanza. I can say and send everything I can and noone guarding
> quality of discussion on this mail-list. Thats why seweral valuable persons
> leaved this forum.
>
> It is for our interest to have better admin/moderator. This will for sure
> make this list better....
>
> thats my two cents
>
> -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
> http://www.Meteoryt.net marcin at meteoryt.net
> http://www.PolandMET.com marcin at polandmet.com
> http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195
> --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------
>
> ______________________________________________
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> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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--
Success is not counted by how high you have climbed but by how
many people you brought with you.  ? Anonymous
-- 
I have given two cousins to war and I stand
ready to sacrifice my wife's brother.
         Artemus Ward
--
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Received on Sat 07 Apr 2007 07:14:56 PM PDT