AW: [meteorite-list] insomnia can cause clouding of consciousness

From: Stefan Brandes <brandes_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue May 9 12:06:40 2006
Message-ID: <005401c67382$89a7dc20$f49a2fd5_at_FORCEMACHINE>

Right Ingo, Martin,

we?re in Met-heaven today.
Let?s see how long it lasts.
And I?m afraid we?ll all see it, sooner than assumed.

still a collector,
Stefan


> Well spoken, Martin!
>
> We all (collectors, dealers and scientists) should be happy to have the
> possibility to get the rar material!
>
> Ingo
>
>
>
>
> --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
>> Von: "Martin Altmann" <altmann_at_meteorite-martin.de>
>> An: <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>> Betreff: AW: [meteorite-list] insomnia can cause clouding of
>> consciousness
>> Datum: Tue, 9 May 2006 13:43:42 +0200
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> we shouldn't loose in this discussions a more general sight.
>> Dealers moan about the radical drop in prices, the difficulties to get
>> the
>> stuff classified, collectors bewail the lack of accurate data for their
>> material, both groups permanently are afraid to experience a financial
>> loss,
>> scientists complain about a criminal plundering and feel to classify an
>> ordinary chondrite is an emetic job; collectors and scientists accuse the
>> dealers of being driven solely by rampant mammonism; collectors blame
>> scientists and dealers to destroy fine specimens by cutting, dealers and
>> collectors object to scientists to have an insufficient description
>> system
>> and no interest in bringing paired stuff together...
>>
>> If you read the list, then you inevitably get to the point,
>> that the Sahara-boom must have been a downright terrible calamity!!!
>>
>> Well, I really don't know anymore, whether I have to make clear, that the
>> short period of the desert rush, was and will be for all groups an
>> incredible and, sadly, an irrecoverable enormous MEGA-TERA-PARA-BONANZA
>> in
>> all fields (hunting, collecting, sience, monetary aspects).
>>
>> Bernd, Joern, Dieter, Blaine, Alex - please you veterans help me to
>> enlighten all those groups, that nowadays we are living in a meteoritical
>> paradise !!!
>> Tell them, how it was in the years before the desert rush.
>> Tell them, how few different meteorites one could permanently acquire at
>> all.
>> Tell them, what an overwhelming sensation it was, to find exhibited on a
>> dealers table a piece of a HOW or URE, which was larger sized than a
>> fingernail!
>> Tell them, what for a deep satisfaction it was, to get a pinhead sized
>> bogey
>> of something so exotic lice an ACAP or even a Moon in one's collection.
>> Tell them, how catastrophically ruinous your fervor was, what efforts
>> were
>> to undertake to get a Brahin or a Sikhote into the colln.
>> Good heavens folks, those weren't mythical ages aeons ago, that happened
>> still 6-10 years ago!
>>
>> You Morocco-crusaders, tell them, how short those Sahara-boom lasted,
>> tell
>> them about the culmination 3 years ago, tell them how rapidly it is going
>> to
>> an end since.
>>
>> Scientists, tell them of those days, when it was an exiting event to get
>> an
>> eucrite on the table, tell them how appetently you were buying and
>> trading
>> the first desert finds!
>>
>> I really can't grok the permanent discussions here.
>> What do we all want more????
>>
>> On the one hand the permanent whining, that "market" is in ruin, on the
>> other hand the whining about exaggerated prices, are you all blind?
>>
>> Collectors, the prices of today for desert material are 10-50 times LOWER
>> than only a few years ago. What does it matter at this level, whether a
>> DIO
>> or a R has 200grams tkw or with its possible pairings 5kgs???
>> What shall those grieved faces, if you have bought a cumul EUC at 6$/g
>> and
>> some months later for a short period it is going for 2.5$/g ???
>> Do you seriously think, that in the very next few years prices will stay
>> so
>> low and that each type will still be disposable at will??
>>
>> Dealers, what shall the anxiety that there is almost no profit to make at
>> present times with desert and that you had losses with material bought a
>> while ago? Sell meanwhile classical locations, they are stable and there
>> you
>> can earn money. And with desert: Don't you see, how the first type
>> already
>> tripled in price on ebay? Don't you see, that the supply from desert
>> breaks
>> down?
>> Don't you see your collegues haply buying each brown boring stone they
>> can
>> get down there, for later folding their feet on the table in front of the
>> fireplace in their villas?
>> (Arrrrrgh any wealthy sponsor out there, for whom we could organize a
>> mighty
>> additional old age pension, as long as it is still possible?)
>>
>> And what about those plaints about the missing data for NWAs?
>> The stuff is incredible dirt cheap and everyone knows, that there's the
>> rub,
>> in the way, they were collected, whereon nobody had any influence.
>> Strewnfield data simply can't be retrieved anymore. Whether the pairings
>> will be set together again, we will see much later, I personally guess,
>> as
>> it is already the case, at least the most rare types will be compared.
>> If you can't bear to have such orphans in your collection, just don't
>> acquire NWAs, take classical locations or Oman-meteorites (as long as
>> it's
>> still possible), who do have all data, but are paid like NWAs at present.
>> Or buy from real Sahara-hunters, who record the data of their true finds,
>> like e.g. Franco or the Berouds.
>>
>> Instantaneously the dilemma between accurate tkw of possible pairings and
>> the official classification of stones, to calm the collectors to get 100%
>> officially the right stuff, can't be solved.
>> (A dilemma which can't be resolved, Martin Pleonasticus is speaking).
>> And also the reproaches against the Met.Soc and the Nom.Com aren't
>> justified. Please check the archive, wasn't it last year, when Grossman
>> explicitely invited collectors and dealers here on the list, to help with
>> their ideas to improve the nomenclature system for NWA-meteorites?
>> As one of the results now all true finds with coordinates will get a
>> proper
>> name, to reward the finders, who cared for the record of data.
>> And also with the classification issue I have to calm you, those
>> unclassified NWAs sold, who says, that they would be lost forever?
>> There is no obstacle, that they could be classified later. Look at the
>> IMCA-site, there you find even an offer, where private collectors can get
>> their stuff classified for free!
>>
>> We don't have to be purblind and just have to apply a perspective over a
>> larger distance of time.
>> The desert rush was an unique event in history of meteoritics. The mass
>> of
>> finds banged into a worldwide collector's scene of perhaps only 1000
>> people,
>> that's the reason, why the prices dropped underground. It was a short
>> period
>> of only 4-5 years and there weren't unclear huge amounts of material
>> found.
>> Please reread the post, where Grossman extracted from the Bulletin
>> database
>> the total amount of recorded meteorites, wherefrom one easy can deduct,
>> that
>> with NWA all in all we speak only about very few tonnes. But because
>> there
>> are so few collectors on Earth, the prices felt, despite the fact, that
>> meteorites are still the most rare matter on Earth.
>> Additionally the tininess of that, what some of you call "meteorite
>> market",
>> explains, why only a single person, who is dumping a meteorite, is
>> necessary
>> for destroying the price for a while. As it happened in some cases. Take
>> the
>> actual Moon price for an example. Those fluctuations are transient.
>> Take Mars. Still one year ago you could buy in ebay week by week nice 1g
>> slices at 100-150$/g. Now you won't get any below 250-300$/g, even not
>> 10g-slices. Remember Kainsaz. Do you think, you will find it at 2.5$/g
>> again, like 2 years ago? When it's gone it's gone and the prices raise.
>> See the always identical pattern with observed falls. If material appears
>> for the first time, it is expensive. Soon, if it is a fall, where only a
>> few
>> different sellers get material, price will drop remarkably, after a
>> while,
>> depending how much material was set free, it becomes rare and the price
>> raise again, often remarkably outreaching the initial price, at which the
>> meteorite was sold for the first time.
>> If smth is gone, it's gone. Read Michael Blood's column, where he's
>> wondering, how expensive Gibeon is nowadays. No big wonder. Since the
>> export
>> prohibition only old material is still available. Gibeon is an excellent
>> example, because in past it was by far the most common iron, smth like
>> Campo&Sikhote today. On each fair the equation was valuable: Where
>> meteorite, there Gibeon. Already in 2001, I remember, cause I wanted to
>> buy
>> some, suddenly on the Munich show, there were only perhaps a quarter of
>> the
>> amount of Gibeon, as the year before. The following 2 years, the dealers
>> still had their old price tags, but now it wasn't DEM anymore, but they
>> were
>> in Euro (= doubled) and finally last year, there was a single half of a
>> table, where still entire Gibeons were available, the price I didn't took
>> in
>> my notebook, because it was so expensive, that it was not interesting,
>> and the Sprichs still had a single large specimen.
>> (Btw. Andi and me still have some rough specimens for sale).
>> Like this it will be with Sikhote-Alin, as it's over - already hard to
>> find
>> are meanwhile kg-pieces with regmaglypts
>> And of course the same will happen with all NWA-material.
>> Certainly it is difficult to estimate, how large the "overhang" of
>> material
>> still is and when the prices will react, but be sure prices will raise
>> remarkably - sooner or later.
>>
>> And then don't complain, that Mr.Buckleboo hadn't warned you!
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Received on Tue 09 May 2006 12:06:29 PM PDT