AW: [meteorite-list] insomnia can cause clouding of consciousness

From: Ingo Herkstroeter <metopaster_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue May 9 09:25:54 2006
Message-ID: <14844.1147181151_at_www043.gmx.net>

Well spoken, Martin!

We all (collectors, dealers and scientists) should be happy to have the
possibility to get the rar material!

Ingo




 --- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: "Martin Altmann" <altmann_at_meteorite-martin.de>
> An: <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Betreff: AW: [meteorite-list] insomnia can cause clouding of consciousness
> Datum: Tue, 9 May 2006 13:43:42 +0200
>
> Dear list,
>
> we shouldn't loose in this discussions a more general sight.
> Dealers moan about the radical drop in prices, the difficulties to get the
> stuff classified, collectors bewail the lack of accurate data for their
> material, both groups permanently are afraid to experience a financial
> loss,
> scientists complain about a criminal plundering and feel to classify an
> ordinary chondrite is an emetic job; collectors and scientists accuse the
> dealers of being driven solely by rampant mammonism; collectors blame
> scientists and dealers to destroy fine specimens by cutting, dealers and
> collectors object to scientists to have an insufficient description system
> and no interest in bringing paired stuff together...
>
> If you read the list, then you inevitably get to the point,
> that the Sahara-boom must have been a downright terrible calamity!!!
>
> Well, I really don't know anymore, whether I have to make clear, that the
> short period of the desert rush, was and will be for all groups an
> incredible and, sadly, an irrecoverable enormous MEGA-TERA-PARA-BONANZA in
> all fields (hunting, collecting, sience, monetary aspects).
>
> Bernd, Joern, Dieter, Blaine, Alex - please you veterans help me to
> enlighten all those groups, that nowadays we are living in a meteoritical
> paradise !!!
> Tell them, how it was in the years before the desert rush.
> Tell them, how few different meteorites one could permanently acquire at
> all.
> Tell them, what an overwhelming sensation it was, to find exhibited on a
> dealers table a piece of a HOW or URE, which was larger sized than a
> fingernail!
> Tell them, what for a deep satisfaction it was, to get a pinhead sized
> bogey
> of something so exotic lice an ACAP or even a Moon in one's collection.
> Tell them, how catastrophically ruinous your fervor was, what efforts were
> to undertake to get a Brahin or a Sikhote into the colln.
> Good heavens folks, those weren't mythical ages aeons ago, that happened
> still 6-10 years ago!
>
> You Morocco-crusaders, tell them, how short those Sahara-boom lasted, tell
> them about the culmination 3 years ago, tell them how rapidly it is going
> to
> an end since.
>
> Scientists, tell them of those days, when it was an exiting event to get
> an
> eucrite on the table, tell them how appetently you were buying and trading
> the first desert finds!
>
> I really can't grok the permanent discussions here.
> What do we all want more????
>
> On the one hand the permanent whining, that "market" is in ruin, on the
> other hand the whining about exaggerated prices, are you all blind?
>
> Collectors, the prices of today for desert material are 10-50 times LOWER
> than only a few years ago. What does it matter at this level, whether a
> DIO
> or a R has 200grams tkw or with its possible pairings 5kgs???
> What shall those grieved faces, if you have bought a cumul EUC at 6$/g and
> some months later for a short period it is going for 2.5$/g ???
> Do you seriously think, that in the very next few years prices will stay
> so
> low and that each type will still be disposable at will??
>
> Dealers, what shall the anxiety that there is almost no profit to make at
> present times with desert and that you had losses with material bought a
> while ago? Sell meanwhile classical locations, they are stable and there
> you
> can earn money. And with desert: Don't you see, how the first type already
> tripled in price on ebay? Don't you see, that the supply from desert
> breaks
> down?
> Don't you see your collegues haply buying each brown boring stone they can
> get down there, for later folding their feet on the table in front of the
> fireplace in their villas?
> (Arrrrrgh any wealthy sponsor out there, for whom we could organize a
> mighty
> additional old age pension, as long as it is still possible?)
>
> And what about those plaints about the missing data for NWAs?
> The stuff is incredible dirt cheap and everyone knows, that there's the
> rub,
> in the way, they were collected, whereon nobody had any influence.
> Strewnfield data simply can't be retrieved anymore. Whether the pairings
> will be set together again, we will see much later, I personally guess, as
> it is already the case, at least the most rare types will be compared.
> If you can't bear to have such orphans in your collection, just don't
> acquire NWAs, take classical locations or Oman-meteorites (as long as it's
> still possible), who do have all data, but are paid like NWAs at present.
> Or buy from real Sahara-hunters, who record the data of their true finds,
> like e.g. Franco or the Berouds.
>
> Instantaneously the dilemma between accurate tkw of possible pairings and
> the official classification of stones, to calm the collectors to get 100%
> officially the right stuff, can't be solved.
> (A dilemma which can't be resolved, Martin Pleonasticus is speaking).
> And also the reproaches against the Met.Soc and the Nom.Com aren't
> justified. Please check the archive, wasn't it last year, when Grossman
> explicitely invited collectors and dealers here on the list, to help with
> their ideas to improve the nomenclature system for NWA-meteorites?
> As one of the results now all true finds with coordinates will get a
> proper
> name, to reward the finders, who cared for the record of data.
> And also with the classification issue I have to calm you, those
> unclassified NWAs sold, who says, that they would be lost forever?
> There is no obstacle, that they could be classified later. Look at the
> IMCA-site, there you find even an offer, where private collectors can get
> their stuff classified for free!
>
> We don't have to be purblind and just have to apply a perspective over a
> larger distance of time.
> The desert rush was an unique event in history of meteoritics. The mass of
> finds banged into a worldwide collector's scene of perhaps only 1000
> people,
> that's the reason, why the prices dropped underground. It was a short
> period
> of only 4-5 years and there weren't unclear huge amounts of material
> found.
> Please reread the post, where Grossman extracted from the Bulletin
> database
> the total amount of recorded meteorites, wherefrom one easy can deduct,
> that
> with NWA all in all we speak only about very few tonnes. But because there
> are so few collectors on Earth, the prices felt, despite the fact, that
> meteorites are still the most rare matter on Earth.
> Additionally the tininess of that, what some of you call "meteorite
> market",
> explains, why only a single person, who is dumping a meteorite, is
> necessary
> for destroying the price for a while. As it happened in some cases. Take
> the
> actual Moon price for an example. Those fluctuations are transient.
> Take Mars. Still one year ago you could buy in ebay week by week nice 1g
> slices at 100-150$/g. Now you won't get any below 250-300$/g, even not
> 10g-slices. Remember Kainsaz. Do you think, you will find it at 2.5$/g
> again, like 2 years ago? When it's gone it's gone and the prices raise.
> See the always identical pattern with observed falls. If material appears
> for the first time, it is expensive. Soon, if it is a fall, where only a
> few
> different sellers get material, price will drop remarkably, after a while,
> depending how much material was set free, it becomes rare and the price
> raise again, often remarkably outreaching the initial price, at which the
> meteorite was sold for the first time.
> If smth is gone, it's gone. Read Michael Blood's column, where he's
> wondering, how expensive Gibeon is nowadays. No big wonder. Since the
> export
> prohibition only old material is still available. Gibeon is an excellent
> example, because in past it was by far the most common iron, smth like
> Campo&Sikhote today. On each fair the equation was valuable: Where
> meteorite, there Gibeon. Already in 2001, I remember, cause I wanted to
> buy
> some, suddenly on the Munich show, there were only perhaps a quarter of
> the
> amount of Gibeon, as the year before. The following 2 years, the dealers
> still had their old price tags, but now it wasn't DEM anymore, but they
> were
> in Euro (= doubled) and finally last year, there was a single half of a
> table, where still entire Gibeons were available, the price I didn't took
> in
> my notebook, because it was so expensive, that it was not interesting,
> and the Sprichs still had a single large specimen.
> (Btw. Andi and me still have some rough specimens for sale).
> Like this it will be with Sikhote-Alin, as it's over - already hard to
> find
> are meanwhile kg-pieces with regmaglypts
> And of course the same will happen with all NWA-material.
> Certainly it is difficult to estimate, how large the "overhang" of
> material
> still is and when the prices will react, but be sure prices will raise
> remarkably - sooner or later.
>
> And then don't complain, that Mr.Buckleboo hadn't warned you!
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Tue 09 May 2006 09:25:51 AM PDT