AW: [meteorite-list] ebay sniping

From: batkol <batkol_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat Jun 24 08:51:21 2006
Message-ID: <002601c6978c$dd8d5300$ee42d946_at_DJV2WH71>

Martin,
interesting that this should come up on the list. i can't count how many
times i've contacted a seller on their website, ready to buy and never
received a response. there are exceptions of course, and i do buy from the
dealers who answer my emails but frequently, ebay has been my only choice.
just an observation from a sometimes frustrated collector. enjoy the
weekend take care
susan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann_at_meteorite-martin.de>
To: <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>; <joseph_town@att.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 3:14 AM
Subject: AW: AW: [meteorite-list] ebay sniping


Hiho Bill,

It was only my experience, not a lecture.
And you might understand my drive to tell my observations to the list,
because ebay is an important platform, where meteorites are sold, and a
sometimes more ratiocinating way to buy there can help the collectors to
save money or to get more for their budget.

I'm not condemning ebay or people using sniper programs, it's a free world,
but I was wondering often about the irrational behaviour of the bidders
there.

You may understand, when I tell you the situation of the German meteorite
market. Due to a little economical crises and a hysteria unleashed by the
mass media, people tended here in all branches to reduce their consumption
drastically and to carry each penny to the bank. Meteorites were of course
also afflicted, as the first thing where people save money is with their
hobbies. (In fact my sales in Germany my drastically dropped suddenly to a
level of only 10% of the volume 3 years ago).
On the other hand there was a common sense - Norbert nicely translated the
slogan in the Munich show report - of "stinginess is stylish" and people had
a new sparetime activity, the hunt for bargains.
Also their cup of tea and not to by commented by me.

But! Because of this Zeitgeist, the meteorite collectors stopped buying at
regular prices and bought almost exclusively on ebay, acting in good faith,
that in either case they would get the best of bargain there, because on
ebay they set the price.

The German collectors scene and the meteorite section in German ebay is much
smaller than in USA, so I would say, that I know 90% of the routine bidders
there.
And the observations I made in selling on ebay my own material, but also
when I saw them bidding on other stuff lead to that survey:
For certain items they paid on average much, much more than they would have
to pay, if they would take them at regular prices from most dealer-pages.
And that is very strange. Of course auctions boost such thrilling factors
like that one is "fighting" against others to win, but interesting is, that
all in all most have no idea about meteorite prices. If they are looking for
electronic devices e.g. it never happens, that they would pay twice or three
times more than the normal retail price.

Though it would be very easy to get an idea for the value or price of a
locales if one simply takes a look onto the dealers_list or, and I have to
confess, when I have forgotten a price of a meteorite, I simply just throw
into google: "the meteorite name" + meteorite + sale - and get in a second a
list of offers from different dealers, where I can see, what normally the
price is - if those bidders would do the same, it wouldn't happen, that they
bid multiple prices than the usual ones onto a meteorite specimen.

Now note again, how especially strange this must have been for me!
German collectors, with some exceptions of course, weren't buying anymore at
all from me at my regular prices, cause they thought to make bargains on
ebay.
Most of them had my price lists, nevertheless they paid much more on ebay
for the same locales in similar sizes and quality at other offerers or even,
on my very specimens, when I listed them there.
I sold so less, that I almost quit meteorite selling and because I was
stupid or I had scruples, I didn't use ebay to get out higher prices, but
sold my specimens to dealers, who made nothing else, than to list them on
ebay, with good results.

It might sound to be a great fun to get a piece heftily overpaid, but in
fact a seller would be more happy, if all those who demonstrably by their
bid, which exceeded the price, the seller wants to get out for the piece,
are willing to pay more, would buy each a piece at the regular price. They
would save money and the seller would have a larger cash flow.
To operate with reserve prices, buy-it-now ect. doesn't help, cause the
sensation of the bidders then is, that it's no auction and no bargain.

Other side of the medal is, that due the lack of knowledge of the prices
valuable specimens simply can die on ebay (as seller one has to have a
pre-sensation, what works there, and what not), and ebay can be a fine place
to buy. I purchased stuff at prices... historical meteorites, if I would ask
a dealer-friend to give it to me at such prices, he would in the best case
think, that I'm suffering from a temporal mental disease and he would
forgive me,
Or rare desert types, cheaper than one can get it in Morocco.

And this simply leads to a shrinking variety of meteoritical offers on ebay.
There were times, where you could find on German ebay only the same 5-8 mass
locales, unclassified W3 NWAs, lousy indochinites and names only in subgram
sizes. And don't forget, I have no idea what for an imagination of the
"meteorite market" you have, meteorites a very rare, there are only a few
collectors, hence there are only a few of offerors and among them only a
handful, who makes their livings exclusively by selling meteorites.
All of them are true enthusiasts.
The normal amateur seller and the professional meteorite seller, whose
budget is to limited to compensate to many losses on ebay will adapt the
kind, the quality and the size of their specimens to that properties, which
are paid well on ebay. If a locales brings no result, just make the pieces
smaller and smaller until you get out a profit, welcome to the micro-mill.
They don't pay for rare stuff? Sell mass irons.. and so on.
Bill, we are enthusiasts - e.g. Campo is paid in German ebay always with
80-100Euro/kg (in US-ebay I guess it's often 40-50$/kg Buy-It-Now),
you will say, stop your whining, go to Hans, buy 3 tons of mixed Campo and
sell them in German ebay.
But Bill, that makes no fun! Always to offer the same or to offer material
from which one is not convinced by oneself.
Take a look, most sellers are collectors too, they are driven by their love
for those stones and take remarkable efforts always to be able to offer
smth. new. Take the falls- and historical names sector, those aren't growing
on the trees, to have an assortment of 100 different locales and to present
every year 20 more is a lot of work. Take the desert sector. To go to
Morocco, to find out the exotics with all the unavoidable purchases of
terrestrial material, the difficulties to get it classified..
Take the hunters, to run the costly expeditions - man, do you think the
Russians got their costs out, when they sold their classified Dho-OCs on
ebay at 100$/kg?? - all this you can't do with a certain enthusiasm (and
masochism), if it would be all about the money, the meteorite dealers would
better switch to other branches.

I'm sounding like a dealer? I am a dealer.
But that what I said here, most others can attest.

Buckleboo.

PS: Be friendly to your meteorite dealer :-)


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: joseph_town_at_att.net [mailto:joseph_town@att.net]
Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Juni 2006 02:08
An: Martin Altmann
Cc: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: AW: [meteorite-list] ebay sniping

Martin,

Please stop these lectures. I will decide when to buy this or that. You're
beginning to sound like a meteorite dealer.

Bill


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann_at_meteorite-martin.de>
> Hi all too,
>
> but Ken, if all are using sniper programs and those programs bid the
maximum
> bid in the last moment, what happens then?
>
> Ebay is also entertainment, it's more thrilling to snipe manually (aside
it
> has more sportsmanship).
> I never used sniper software - and I have to say, that method saves the
most
> money. If an auction is ending at a for me unfavourable day- or nighttime
> and I miss it, I shrug - I have saved money. If a sniper program user is
> faster than me and I don't win, again: a saved penny is an earned penny.
> There will be always a new opportunity.
>
> "you won't be in business for long by giving the stuff away."
>
> Yep, that's what one can observe during the last 2 years. More and more
> dealers have to give up. The diversification of the supply is shrinking,
> not so many offerors, especially the semiprofessional dealers or the
> collectors using ebay for sales can afford a mixed calculation to
literally
> give away pieces on ebay and to compensate the losses with other overpaid
> results.
> Another effect is, that the offerors in ebay have to suit on the
> affectations of the ebay-clients or to say it clearly only to offer there
> stuff, which they get reasonably paid.
> Result is that the diversity of the supply on ebay suffers.
> Take a look - at least 70% of all meteorite auctions on ebay, I'd say, are
> always the same mass locales and/or to say it harshly: lousy crap, the
> quality of preparation is on average worse than that, what you get from a
> regular dealer and rarer or interesting types and historical falls you
find
> often only as microcrumbs.
> Reason: Most sellers have to avoid to offer more superior specimens there,
> cause they would be paid below their own costs.
> But ebay is only one segment. More money certainly is to make for dealers
> with a broad assortment beyond ebay.
>
> Funny is also the psychology behind ebay, the blind trust of not so few,
> that ebay would be always the cheapest way to get the stuff and thus many
> never are buying at regular prices from a webdealer.
> Shall I tell you a secret? I'm meanwhile a specialist in finding out
> locales, which are not so frequently offered on ebay and I buy them from
> dealers. In buying from them I never haggle, some give me a little
discount,
> some not - the buying price simply doesn't matter at all anymore. The
stuff
> is often rotting on their pages for several years and everybody, who has
an
> internet access could buy it - but they don't, because they are ebay
> aficionados and they simply need the feeling of security, that they didn't
> paid a to high price there, because there was at least one person, who was
> willing to pay quite the same price.
> The stuff I buy I set on ebay at 1$. Until now it never happened, that I
got
> out for a locales less than twice as much as I paid, when I bought it at
the
> regular price. Depending from my absolute buying per gram price, I get out
> in most cases 3-5 times my buying price, my personal best is 22times.
>
> That's why I love ebay as a seller.
> Scruples I had initially, but especially in Germany in the last 2 years
the
> collectors didn't want to buy at my regular prices anymore, but despite
they
> had my price lists, where they could order the stuff without stress, they
> didn't, but whenever I set a piece from my list into ebay, just those
> clients, who could read from the list, what my price is, paid 10-200%
more.
> A funny example: I had a very fresh Ochansk fragment, nice brecciation, I
> offered it at 4Euro/g (quite o.k., I checked all dealers prices and
average
> Ochansk price was 8.5$/g) to two clients. They refused, obviously the
price
> was not suitable for them. When I wanted to put the piece back in his box,
> it slipped out of my hands, a corner broke off. Well, I packed the corner
in
> a display box, made some photos listed it on ebay.
> Next Sunday there a bidding race happened between two bidders. The outcome
> for the little Ochansk chunk was incredible 330Euro per gram.
> The IDs of the bidders I knew, they were exactly those customers, to whose
I
> offered Ochansk a week ago at 4 per gram.
>
> But don't mind, I'm not switching totally to ebay, hehe. Collectors will
be
> able to order also in future at my regular prices from me.
>
> Buckleboo!!
> Martin
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> kenoneill_at_kenoneill.com
> Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Juni 2006 23:05
> An: Meteorite-List
> Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] ebay sniping
>
> Hi all,
> I've used www.auctionstealer.com and won many auctions. I have used it to
> win approx 100 auctions , it let me down once.
>
> Why use a snipe tool ? As a buyer it gets you a better price because it
> tends to stop the bidder, who can't bear losing at any cost, bidding up
just
> to beat you and paying over the odds to have the satisfaction of winning.
>
> Using snipe tools to stop overzealous bidders is not really what the
seller
> wants, but the facts are a buyer wants the lowest price and will, given
the
> opprtunity, seek the means to achieve this. Whereas the seller wants the
> highest price and will look to increase their profit margin whatever way
> they can, you won't be in business for long by giving the stuff away.
>
> Bidding your sniped price early will more often lead to you losing the
> auction. If you don't believe me put it to the test.
>
> Sniping saves the buyer money and wins more auctions.
>
> Ken
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of harlan
> trammell
> Sent: 23 June 2006 16:19
> To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] ebay sniping
>
>
> EBAY PRO'S - can anybody recommend a spot-on reliable, one-shot, one-kill
> sniping service? i am loosing ebay auctions with auctionsniper.com (it
does
> not bid late enough and somebody swoops in after my snipe is entered by
> auctionsniper , and THEY take the item).
>
>
>
> i will be gradually switching over to yahoo mail (it has 100 FREE megs of
> storage). please cc to: bigpineartifacts_at_yahoo.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


______________________________________________
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Received on Sat 24 Jun 2006 08:50:43 AM PDT